Pine Knot Rating

Just noticed that Pine Knot has been re-rated as a black.  That is probably the correct rating, but I wonder why they changed it just now.

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It had an orange expert sign on top today because (I guess) they were making snow and it was thin cover... The blue square trail maker was still up. The expert rating is probably just a today/tomorrow thing.

mattchuck2 wrote

It had an orange expert sign on top today because (I guess) they were making snow and it was thin cover... The blue square trail maker was still up. The expert rating is probably just a today/tomorrow thing.

No doubt that's correct. I've/we've seen that trail be plenty gnarly in that situation. Even on better days it can be a steep, off-camber ice rink

worst trail on the mountain. icy, double fault line filled with skiers of all abilities who must contend with knuckleheads who are racing to the straightbrook chair. it wouldn't be bad if it weren't the only connector to up top. i think they should leave it semi bumped up to discourage straight-liners.

DackerDan wrote

I would doubt it, that would make cut off any access to the blue trails at the top unless the High Peaks chair was running which is not all the time mid week. I suspect it is an error in the website. I did not ski it today but will check the signage next time.

Rating it black does not change the trail.  If it is too hard to be rated as a blue (which it is many times), then it should be rated as a black.  The difficulty of the trail cuts off access, not the picture on the sign and map, so intermediates are already cut off from the summit a lot of the time.

Well, true Sno but there's a reasonableness to fore warning people that it is more difficult than usual before they start down it.

There maybe no easy answer given that people of all abilities use that trail to access the summit. One may rightly say low level intermediates shouldn't go there and correct as that is, they still will. People want to go to the summit for the view and the nice blue trails down.

One may rightly say people should ski with care and respect for others. Correct as that is, some jerks still won't.

I was on that trail two years ago, busy weekend, piles of man made everywhere. Because of the large number of people and the conditions, I picked my way down. Towards the bottom, some straight liners came down, one launched off a snowpile just as a little girl traversed below it. His ski tail hit her shoulder as he flew directly over her.

So yea, it's messed up and people's actions make it worse.

Gore is wise and prudent to fore warn people.

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There is always wood out traverse to the high peaks chair for those who don't want to take it.  It is a rather crappy run, I usually drop down Uncas no matter what.  Uncas also allows you to drop into the straighbrook chair without having to slug your way up to it.  

For Gore, it is a blue most of the time.  Hell, I have been there when quicksilver bumped up and it should have been a black.  Always remember that runs are rated for the mountain they are on, not by what other mountains are.  Pine Knot is not Hawkeye.  And Hawkeye is not Lies.  

Those black diamond flags appear occasionally around the mountain, especially when guns are on. Always remember that "conditions are always changing".  No truer thing could be said about Gore.  

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Pine Knot was way ugly today.  Definitely the worst on the mountain.  Uncas was the trail of the day if you don't mind skiing under the guns (I don't).

Snoloco is correct.  Gore changed Pine Knot to a black trail on its website.  In my mind it's more an expert trail than Sagamore is.  The mid section, with its double fall line, is more difficult than any part of Sagamore.  

Regardless, I consider it to be one of Gore's most DANGEROUS trails.  It's tight, twisty, and littered with skiers who definitely shouldn't be there.  Maybe only the headwall of Rumor attracts more skiers who are way out of their depths.  

... BTW, both Pine Knot and Uncas were excellent today.

CMR wrote

Snoloco is correct.  Gore changed Pine Knot to a black trail on its website.  In my mind it's more an expert trail than Sagamore is.  The mid section, with its double fall line, is more difficult than any part of Sagamore.  

Regardless, I consider it to be one of Gore's most DANGEROUS trails.  It's tight, twisty, and littered with skiers who definitely shouldn't be there.  Maybe only the headwall of Rumor attracts more skiers who are way out of their depths.  

... BTW, both Pine Knot and Uncas were excellent today.

It is still blue on the web trail map.

We need to take it easy labeling Pine Knot "one of Gore's most DANGEROUS trails". Except for a couple hundred feet at the flat start of the trail Pine Knot is 80-100 ft wide and it is wider than Sleeping Bear and Tahawus.  It does have a bit of a pitch at the S turn, but it hardly makes the trail dangerous. It is a wide, old school trail and it is gets a lot of traffic but most low intermediates will be able to ski the trail.

It is ok if the trail is a barrier for some people.

x10003q wrote

We need to take it easy labeling Pine Knot "one of Gore's most DANGEROUS trails". Except for a couple hundred feet at the flat start of the trail Pine Knot is 80-100 ft wide and it is wider than Sleeping Bear and Tahawus.  It does have a bit of a pitch at the S turn, but it hardly makes the trail dangerous. It is a wide, old school trail and it is gets a lot of traffic but most low intermediates will be able to ski the trail.

It is ok if the trail is a barrier for some people.

Exactly. An intermediate should be able to ski Pine Knot. I hate Pine Knot too, but let's not go crazy here.

And really, if you want to get to the top and you can't ski Pine Knot (leaving aside the question of what trails you want to ski up there if Pine Knot is too tough for you), Wood Out is always there. On the days that the Darkside chair is closed, Pine Knot doesn't have the crowds to warrant the term "dangerous".

It's a dumb trail, but it's not a diamond. And it's definitely not something that people should be scared of.

I think it's good for gore to place the info on the hill as well as the web site. The temporary black diamond marker kept my wife off pine knot on Saturday. I wish it kept me off as well!

tom

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When I say Pineknot is one of Gore's most dangerous trails, I don't mean that it is terribly difficult.  It is dangerous because it is usually crowded, with a mixture of expert skiers hurriedly getting to the summit chair and beginners snowplow traversing the trail like in a game of Frogger.