Pool on when we hear from Matt??

Learned a lot from him from MC. Dont see him getting sucked in by trick websites either

Matt is already looking to spend that extra money Hil paid him. Rental properties! He won some arguments, but you know what they say about broken clocks. He was mostly the pigeon shitting on the board and knocking the pieces over. You guys are worse than the crying nut jobs on the news. Ironic how the word delusional is beeing thrown around.

I'm back. I did need a little time after the election because I had to process everything. I've said before that when presented with new information, I have to research and study to figure out what the new information means.

Hillary losing was new information. As Coach said, I thought Hillary would cruise to a pretty easy victory, and I was thoroughly surprised that she didn't.

But her loss doesn't disprove anything I said (except for my blatantly wrong predictions about the election and my blatantly wrong characterizations of the electorate).

Benghazi and emails and Clinton Foundation stuff actually was all bluster and conspiracy. There was nothing criminal associated with any of that. Even when Trump gets into power, nobody will press charges against anyone for it. Because there were no crimes committed (for the reasons I mentioned throughout those threads). Coach and PeeTex's predictions of indictment were ridiculous to me because they were not sufficient legal arguments and that they were based on conspiracy, not fact and legal precedent. Nothing about the election changes that. I can go back into those threads and say that I was right.

The thing that I was wrong about, as I mentioned above, was my characterization of the electorate. In that case, I do have to give credit to PeeTex. He had a better understanding of the actual voters than I did, a topic I will discuss more in other threads.

p.s. I didn't get any money from the Clinton campaign for any posts, but if they have some money left over and they are reading this, I accept cash or check.

witch hobble wrote

I'd call him Lee and you McLellan.

Poor analogy,  Custer and Sitting Bull.
I don't say that to be mean, Lee knew he wasn't going to win Custer was blind sided.
I have to say I sure had my doubts. I still blame the DNC here and I hope they learn something from this. The RNC had and I doubt they will repeat thier mistakes.

PeeTex wrote

witch hobble wrote

I'd call him Lee and you McLellan.

Poor analogy,  Custer and Sitting Bull.
I don't say that to be mean, Lee knew he wasn't going to win Custer was blind sided.
I have to say I sure had my doubts. I still blame the DNC here and I hope they learn something from this. The RNC had and I doubt they will repeat thier mistakes.

Yours doesn't work great either, because while Custer miscalculated and his hubris led him to defeat, he died in battle.  Also, that would make Coach the spiritual leader of his people.

Unless you were thinking the other way around.

Johnnyonthespot wrote

 He was mostly the pigeon shitting on the board and knocking the pieces over. You guys are worse than the crying nut jobs on the news.

Hey tough guy! Pot.....kettle....black!

witch hobble wrote

Yours doesn't work great either, because Custer died in battle.  

Well, there is that

And Z as a spiritual leader,  yea - right

Chit.....lost my $5!  Matt, glad you are ok.  Like Hills, you'll pick up the pieces, then continue to fight the good fight.  Hopefully Trump doesn't give you too many opportunities to say 'ha!  You all voted for this, not me!'

I agree, Matt argued...argues...intelligently, passionately, and eloquently.  In this election it turns out he was barking up the wrong tree and was backing the wrong horse.  The strength of his arguments may have blinded him to an extent.  He probably won't let that happen again, making him an even more formidable opponent in the next scrap!

I dont think of any of us  as opponents , just people with passionate beliefs gifted with the ability to discern and articulate our interests

The name calling and berating is juvenile and we all have our moments . But chit i haven't thought of someone with a differing opinion as  an OPPONENT , just another debater in the crowd .  Just sayin

JTG4eva! wrote

Chit.....lost my $5!  Matt, glad you are ok.  Like Hills, you'll pick up the pieces, then continue to fight the good fight.  Hopefully Trump doesn't give you too many opportunities to say 'ha!  You all voted for this, not me!'

I agree, Matt argued...argues...intelligently, passionately, and eloquently.  In this election it turns out he was barking up the wrong tree and was backing the wrong horse.  The strength of his arguments may have blinded him to an extent.  He probably won't let that happen again, making him an even more formidable opponent in the next scrap!

My arguments still hold up, and were based on the information that I had available at the time (combined with a little too much overconfidence).

I still believe in everything I argued for, besides the idea that Hillary would win, and my characterization of the electorate.

For instance: my argument the whole time was that Hillary was a competent beaurocrat that had some problems (too militarily hawkish, too comfortable with big business) and would extend the status quo, while Trump was a dangerous idiot, full of bluster and bombast, who never should be allowed close to the levers of power.

I could still be proven right, but the country is more important than me being right, so I hope, for all our sakes, that I am wrong about Trump.

Coach Z wrote

All Matt proved is that he thought he as a liberal was smarter than everyone else just as all the liberals did that were totally confused by this whole thing did.  Matts points continually were that all the shit - Private servers, pay for play, foundation, speechs, private and public positions, lying, classified material, Benghazi, etc etc etc all didn't matter and she would win easily.   That all has been disproved big time.  Thus he lost all these arguements and all he has to show for it is if he was getting paid to be a troll.

I lost the argument that Hillary would win easily, yes. But that doesn't mean that all of the bullshit they threw at her is suddenly valid. It was still bullshit.

I can go back and look at all of my posts and be proud that I used facts and data to back all my shit up. The data was wrong, in some cases, and I have to give credit to people like nepa and PeeTex who questioned it (specifically, the number of Bernie supporters who would eventually vote Hillary. It would appear that a lot ended up in Trump's camp). One thing I will take away is that I will be more distrustful of popular opinion polls, and I will be slightly more distrustful of "horse race" type polls. I will try to be more understanding of dynamics as PeeTex was, to his credit.

At the same time, I would hope that Coach and PeeTex would look inward, too. The last part of the election, where they would mindlessly repeat a charge from Drudge or Wikileaks before even bothering to check its truth, was pretty sloppy on their part.

Finally, I'd like to defend "liberals". Liberals like me missed on their election predictions, but I don't think that the proper response is gleeful enthusiasm that these exhausting wonks, with their data and facts, got what they deserved. We go on the best available information at the time. If that changes, then we change.

Obviously more will be said and written about this election and why people have chosen the way they did, but that doesn't change the fact that a political philosophy that relies on data to create policy is superior to one that relies on a set group of policies (tax cuts, deregulation, cut spending) and tries to find data to support it.

It must be exhausting trying to maintain an identity as a liberal hater, while also trying to maintain an identity as someone who believes in liberal values like compassion, tolerance, kindness, and hope. And I see people on this forum struggling with it. Here's a few posts from a blog from a Jewish conservative that was against Trump on election night:



He recognizes that the anti-semetic language that the Trump candidacy has brought out of the woodwork is awful for people like him, and awful for the country. But his next two posts are talking about how happy it makes him that those liberal bastards are finally getting theirs.

Or, put more elequently:

Sure, Trump stirred up the Nazis, but look on the bright side, he made the liberal elites sad! I think this was a big part of the winning formula. I doubt Trump voters seriously believe their man will make international trade more advantageous to the U.S., or settle race relations, or bring global peace. But they don't like the people who are actually working on these things; they are delivering unsatisfactory results and, in the Trumpkin mind, that isn't because these things are difficult and complicated, but because they spend too much time thinking about their friends the blacks, the women, the foreigners, and the gays. Never mind your so-called rights, widget sales are fluctuating, now how'm I going to afford that second home? It's gotta be the fault of liberal elites!

You don't have to be a yokel to think like that -- hell, you don't even have to be a Republican. You just have to be a certain kind of American who's always wondering where's his.

I'm getting that kind of vibe from tjf and camp right now, and I've felt that kind of vibe from people on Facebook as well.

Deep down, some of you were probably hoping that I'd be more saddened, or defeated, or crushed. You think it's great that people like me got beat and that the Trumpian ideals of (????????) triumphed over my brand of fact based arguments and reasoned research. You were predicting that I'd stay off the forums for a couple of weeks, or move to Canada, or whatever.

Well guess what, guys? I ain't going nowhere*, and I'm not defeated. I'm going to keep pushing my ideas for what the country should do, regardless of who is in power. Hillary's loss was a hit to the Democratic Party, but not to liberal ideals. Those will be around forever.





*I probably am going to go somewhere because I tend to lose interest in politics after Presidential elections and ski season is coming up. BUT NOT BECAUSE ANYONE MADE ME GO AWAY!

Matt, notwithstanding your blindness toward Hill's particular brand of corruption and deceit.....you are a stand up guy.  I appreciate the discussion, and the particular level of effort you put in.  Unlike Warp, I do think opponent is a good word.  Someone who disagrees, has an opposing viewpoint.  As f'ed up as this election has been, it's been somewhat fascinating, and the discussion here only added to that.  I wish I could have contributed as much as you!

That said......come on, it was really entertaining to watch all of the liberal talking heads on the tele react in bewildered disbelief as the returns came in!!!

Thanks, JTG, I enjoyed the back and forth with you, too.

As far as taking pleasure in other people's shock, anxiety, and sadness, no. I try not to do that even when I win. When a sports team I'm rooting for wins, I don't even like it when they show the sad reactions of the losing players.

I was raised to, win or lose, act like you've been there before and you'll be there again.

mattchuck2 wrote

As far as taking pleasure in other people's shock, anxiety, and sadness, no.

Hey....I'm not a monster!  It's not like I was sitting there hurling insults at the tv whilst shooting jizz in my eye!

JTG4eva! wrote

It's not like I was sitting there hurling insults at the tv whilst shooting jizz in my eye!

You really do have a way with words.  

Seriously MC. You made the entire cycle more fun for me.  Again, although we sometimes disagree, I totally respect your passion and admire you optimism.  Just wanted to say thanks for putting the time in, and getting people fired up.

JTG4eva! wrote

mattchuck2 wrote

As far as taking pleasure in other people's shock, anxiety, and sadness, no.

Hey....I'm not a monster!  It's not like I was sitting there hurling insults at the tv whilst shooting jizz in my eye!

FKNA!! Funny shit right there^^^^^

And yea --- MC I'm glad you're back. You made me think with some of your posts. While I still feel deep down your a blind D no matter who is in there I'm cool with that because of your passion. Plus you introduced me to Gary Johnson, with out that I wouldn't have voted for anyone. But even that's cool with me. Lets DRINK

Matt you stuck your head in the mud concerning Clinton and ignored all the warning signs.  If it was like one thing about Clinton that pointed to lying fine but you and the rest of the liberal elistists ignored the avalanche.  

“Dear Democrats, Read This If You Do Not Understand Why Trump Won” by Trent Lapinski https://medium.com/@trentlapinski/dear-democrats-read-this-if-you-do-not-understand-why-trump-won-5a0cdb13c597#.ynal0e6fu

Coach aint above rubbing your dick in the dirt.  

tjf1967 wrote

Coach aint above rubbing your dick in the dirt.  

LMAO