Rafting the Hudson without a Guide

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Rafting the Hudson without a Guide

Harvey
Administrator
Just got a comment on a blog post that concerns me.  It is the sixth comment:

http://nyskiblog.com/blue-ledges-ny/

Am I overreacting?

If you are a guide or have river experience, you might post a comment there.

Often people who post comments return to see responses.
"You just need to go at that shit wide open, hang on, and own it." —Camp
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Re: Rafting the Hudson without a Guide

skimore
Probably the 1st reference I heard about snorkeling in the Adirondacks
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Re: Rafting the Hudson without a Guide

Snowballs
Banned User
We snorkel (skin diving) on Lake George. Good lung exercise.
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Re: Rafting the Hudson without a Guide

MC2 5678F589
In reply to this post by Harvey
I think it's possible to do without a guide.

But that guy seems like he's in over his head. Bringing two young kids along and asking about info for the dam because he wants to go when it is "really high". I think your feelings of uneasiness are probably from that, too.

Although, for all we know, this guy could have been on more whitewater than any of us and would be perfectly fine. Kind of a crazy plan for an experienced river guy, though... Usually those guys are big on safety.
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Re: Rafting the Hudson without a Guide

tBatt
Agreeing with MC2's post, and with my elaboration.

Huh. Well to start, it's possible to do without a guide. But you have to be pretty dam(n) experienced when it comes to whitewater. It's a wilderness trip. No roads nearby for a speedy rescue. You have a bunch of raft guides around (who don't really want to get involved in a rescue due to someone else's ignorance, but will) and the OK Slip falls trail that offers a 3.8 mile foot evac up the ridge the falls are on and out to rt 28.

If this guy actually knows anything about whitewater, he could pretty easily find out when the dam is open and when to find high water.

As far as carrying a raft for four people in an out, our rafts we use commercially are about 100+ lbs. Maybe they're all using their own vessel? Even carrying a packraft, ducky, ect, is going to be super heavy and especially cumbersome to be carrying 4+ miles.

So, say this guy does know what he's doing as far as navigating a raft goes and has proper equipment. He could probably get down fine without too much issue. But why the hell is he hiking it in via the Blue Ledge trail and out on the train tracks if he can save himself TONS and TONS of work by using the regular put in and take out? Because he wants to go hiking, too?

Say this guy only knows about these places because he went rafting with a commercial outfitter a few years ago. He heard the safety talk, and knows not to stand up in a river. Maybe he knows about hydraulics and strainers. Great. Has he figured out how much of a bitch it is to hike in and out of the river yet? Maybe he got a lighter "Raft", something like this.  Great, he can get into the river. But the thing will pop within the first rapid or two, and he's up [the Hudson] without a [raft]. Next foot trail out is OK Slip, about 2 miles down and across 1.5 miles worth of class III+ rapids. If he knows about the hazards, does he know where they are and can he competently avoid them? What happens when he hits the Guide's Prison rocks and launches his 8 yr old son into Widowmaker, the keeper hole at the top of the narrows? Will he have the ability to do a live bait rescue with himself and his other son? Will he even have a throw bag? What about when he wraps his boat in Wrap Rapid? Is he able to find the OK Slip trail, Does he have the energy to get out?

The logistics just seem too complicated to make sense, and this guy is having troubles finding out the easiest information to get making me wonder what else he doesn't know. I'm hoping I'm not giving some 17 year old kid CPR while co-workers of mine are trying to stabilize his dad and searching for his 8 year old brother, that's for sure.  

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Re: Rafting the Hudson without a Guide

Harvey
Administrator
You guys are both backing up my gut feeling.  

Somehow the general tone of that comment doesn't make me feel that he has experience.

It was a conscious decision not to share what I know about the dam release.

Hoping my response was strong enough.  Maybe I should link back to tBatt's post above.
"You just need to go at that shit wide open, hang on, and own it." —Camp
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Re: Rafting the Hudson without a Guide

tBatt
Harvey wrote
It was a conscious decision not to share what I know about the dam release.
Ditto.
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Re: Rafting the Hudson without a Guide

Harvey
Administrator
Wait until you hear how this turned out.

"You just need to go at that shit wide open, hang on, and own it." —Camp
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Re: Rafting the Hudson without a Guide

tBatt
This post was updated on .
Funny story. One of the more senior guides on the river, Frank, saw an inflatable pool raft and a shelter made of t-shirts and sticks near OK Slip on the gorge today. A guy named Tim and his two sons hiked into Blue Ledges, tried to raft the gorge in this thing and had to spend the night because they couldn't make it. Frank picked them up in his raft and took them to the takeout.
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Re: Rafting the Hudson without a Guide

MC2 5678F589
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Well, at least he had a sweet adventure?
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Re: Rafting the Hudson without a Guide

ml242
Pics or it didn't happen!
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Re: Rafting the Hudson without a Guide

Harvey
Administrator
In reply to this post by tBatt
Oh it happened.  Somehow I don't think Frank will have pics.

I am blown away that they made it from Blue Ledge to OK Slip.  Be curious to hear a technical description of that stretch.

Did they not know they were at a trailhhead?  Probably never know.

I'm also feeling foolish that I didn't reach out via email to Tim.  You've got to use your email address to post on the blog, so I had it in the backend.  If something far worse had happened — and that is not a stretch of the imagination at all — I'd have that on my conscience.
"You just need to go at that shit wide open, hang on, and own it." —Camp
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Re: Rafting the Hudson without a Guide

tBatt
This post was updated on .
Harvey wrote
 Be curious to hear a technical description of that stretch.
Blue Ledge out - a very short rapid. Bony far river left with a strong hydraulic*. Good set of waves right of center. Short pool before the Narrows. Narrows - one of the biggest, but not very technical rapids on the river. raft line in starts center left, goes over a nice set of waves that ends in "guides prison", a pile of 3 rocks that you have to make the move right before or else you're parked. The line moves far right to get around "widowmaker", a keeper hole in the middle of the river, then back to center right for the rest of the wave train. One really steep one that could flip a little raft, (or big one with the wrong line on the right day), then another crashing wave. slows down with a few more crashing waves, big eddy river left, a nasty pile of rocks center right that you move left to avoid, a strong hole that you can move left or right of, another big crashing wave right of center, and a small pool before Osprey nest.

Osprey nest, or 360 rapid, is a short set of big waves that we usually spin through. lots of crap right of center that you don't want to get on. Big pour over rock on the bottom left.

A big eddy, "Square Eddy", sits between that and Mile Long aka Carters Landing. A super technical long stretch of river that's very shallow (see: "foot entrapment, ") Starts with a couple bony lines right past a keeper hole and around some wrap rocks. Right side at the top used to be my go to line, but a horizontally pinned tree now spans two rocks and extends out about five feet into the former raft line, only submerged under a few inches of water. In the middle it slows down a bit but its filled tons of shallow rocks that you have to snake through, a few that could easily tear a vinyl "raft". Toward the bottom there are some really big crashing waves and holes, more that could easily flip his pool toy. It slows down a bit again with some more shallow, snakey lines, lots of wrap rocks, and another very retentive hole "sneaker sucker". At the bottom of that, you're in the pool/eddy next to a beach at the bottom of OK Slip brook. I have a map somewhere...

*Hydraulic - water pouring over a rock and recirculating behind it. They can be fun, they can be lethal. Depends what's around it, the shape, the volume of water, ect. "Keeper hole" = no good.
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Re: Rafting the Hudson without a Guide

Harvey
Administrator
So... miracle that they made it that far or no? Or quantify miracle by size...

New comment on the Blue Ledge piece from Tim, scroll to the bottom:

http://nyskiblog.com/blue-ledges-ny/
"You just need to go at that shit wide open, hang on, and own it." —Camp
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Re: Rafting the Hudson without a Guide

tBatt
In reply to this post by MC2 5678F589
mattchuck2 wrote
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Well, at least he had a sweet adventure?
Hey, we should ski Snowy some time. I'll meet you there at 9:30?
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Re: Rafting the Hudson without a Guide

MC2 5678F589
Exactly, sometimes the best adventures are the ones that you royally fuck up.

tBatt wrote
mattchuck2 wrote
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Well, at least he had a sweet adventure?
Hey, we should ski Snowy some time. I'll meet you there at 9:30?
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Re: Rafting the Hudson without a Guide

PeeTex
In reply to this post by tBatt
tBatt wrote
Hey, we should ski Snowy some time. I'll meet you there at 9:30?
Might be an exposed slab right now, better to wait until the rabbit turns white again.
Don't ski the trees, ski the spaces between the trees.