Saratoga arts center question

I had heard that the Dead events in the eighties were the most epic s**t shows.

Benny Profane wrote

I had heard that the Dead events in the eighties were the most epic s**t shows.

I don't remember them being that bad  would that have been the same venue?

Not sure about the 80s.

Yes, same place.

No offense, but, I saw the Dead back in the 70s a few times, and I have no recollection at all of 95% of the experiences. Know what I mean?

Edit: Ha, Harvey beat me to it.

The Saratogian ran a short review yesterday and pegged the crowd at 15 thousand.  That's a solid turnout, but nowhere near sell-out capacity.

There was no way to fit more people in there safely.  People had chairs set up all the way back into the concession area.  I question how many people the fire marshal would say they can legally have in there.

SPAC says on their webiste capacity is 25K.

Wikipedia has an interesting note: "SPAC's largest attended performance in its history was by The Grateful Dead in 1985, where a total of 40,231 fans showed up to see the band. Since the show, SPAC limits its capacity to 25,100."

I don't know how many times the 25K capacity has been reached, but Wikipedia also notes Dave Matthews Band "have sold out more concerts than any other artist at the venue, with ten."

I'm telling you there is no way in heck you could have put another 10 thousand people in that crappy venue unless there would have been sitting behind the concession pavilion

I was at that dead show and a lot of other shows with 20k plus. There was more room before that concession area went in. The shit that went on was awesome. Crappy venue. I guess that's a matter of opinion I think I t is one of the better ones. There are more ways out than just that bridge but I usually went over it. You just get in the crowd and go with the flow. What do you want for 25 bucks?  You sound like a grumpy old man. It was a concert. You want mellow go to James Taylor.

Coach Z wrote

I'm telling you there is no way in heck you could have put another 10 thousand people in that crappy venue unless there would have been sitting behind the concession pavilion

Springsteen 1985 "Born In the USA" Tour.  Screw Wikipeda, 50K hands down.  Peeps where out to the wrought iron fences, the concession area didn't exist back then, unless you went to the unofficial vendors.

Didn't do the lawn, shucks, had to deal front-row center balcony, the Guv's Box or something to that effect.  The real adventure was getting out of Dodge before dawn.

Ski you on the hill.

I was at that Springsteen show, but I think it was summer of '84, shortly after Born In the USA was released. People were watching the show from the limbs of the trees at the top of the lawn, 20 feet in the air. It was absolutely awesome, and that reminds me I gotta track down a download of that show. I've seen many other sell-outs at SPAC, including Dead, Phish and others, all a great experience.Somewhere here on the Forum are pics I took from the front row of Tom Petty's show a few years back. I had walked up to the box office that afternoon to buy lawn tix and the agent said "how bout row 2 Center?"

The show itself was great. I was told to not expect good sound system or be able to see and I had no problem with either.  I had my son and his buddy with me so safety was a factor that if you don't have kids you might not get.

The venue looks as it was build in the late 60's or early 70's and not improved since.  Kind of like the original Cowboys stadium cool at the time but now it is concrete dust that houses a parking lot and replaced by Jerry's yaall Mahal .  Just about every venue from that era has at min gone thru a major referb while most have been blown up and rebuilt.  It's the equivalent to the pre Gondi WF and current one which one do you want to ski?.  Time to upgrade or explode SPAC.

Interestingly today they sent me a survey that specifically was asking about if I felt safe exiting the venue and how long it took to exit the parking lot and how I felt about that so they know they have issues.  Thier profits for one show could build two more bridges into the venue and another exit from the parking lot.  That town is raking in the dough and needs to fix that place up.

I just park near the Gideon Putnam and walk out in the other direction and never have any problem.

Fav SPAC shows - Pearl Jam, Bruce, Dead, Petty, Jackson Brown.  

The Dead Show was awesome!  Def 50K there.  we climbed the scaffolding that held the speakers just outside the amphitheater.  We kept going higher cause dudes were climbing below us.  Eventually we figured out it was security trying to get us to come down.  when we did come down we jumped into the crowd who caught us and blocked the guards from grabbing us!  

It was a very "safe" show!  

It's been awhile since I've been to SPAC but man I always had the best time at a show there.  

Coach Z wrote

The show itself was great. I was told to not expect good sound system or be able to see and I had no problem with either.  I had my son and his buddy with me so safety was a factor that if you don't have kids you might not get.

The venue looks as it was build in the late 60's or early 70's and not improved since.  Kind of like the original Cowboys stadium cool at the time but now it is concrete dust that houses a parking lot and replaced by Jerry's yaall Mahal .  Just about every venue from that era has at min gone thru a major referb while most have been blown up and rebuilt.  It's the equivalent to the pre Gondi WF and current one which one do you want to ski?.  Time to upgrade or explode SPAC.

Interestingly today they sent me a survey that specifically was asking about if I felt safe exiting the venue and how long it took to exit the parking lot and how I felt about that so they know they have issues.  Thier profits for one show could build two more bridges into the venue and another exit from the parking lot.  That town is raking in the dough and needs to fix that place up.

Slow down there a bit.  No reason to blow the place up.  My boss is the former production manager/operations manager of SPAC.  The place has its issues, yes, but they are improving.

Sound system is not SPAC's.  Each show brings in their own PA that is hung day of and goes out with the show that night.  Depending on how the PA is deployed and what the show is carrying can really change how the room sounds.  There is a small PA that hangs for ballet and orchestra season but it is not a concert system.  Some improvments in technical systems have been made over the years including the lawn PA and video systems.  

In the industry we call these type of buildings "sheds" because they are exactly that.  Most were built around the same time and most are in the same condition.  We expect them to have 4 walls, some seats, and some steel to attach rigging to.  Thats about it.  That is status quo for the country.  

To further complicate things SPAC has many different entities working inside it that keeps capital projects from happening.  First, it is technically owned by NYS Parks and Rec and leased to a non-profit that operates it.  So, any major issue has to go through Parks and Rec and they are broke.  Second, the show you saw was a Live Nation show.  When Live Nation is there they get keys turned over to them and get the run of the whole place.  So, what they say goes.  With that though the non-profit that runs the place has little influence on what you see or how the place is kept when Live Nation is in there.  There is a constant tug of war there between the "arts" side that produces NYCB and Philly Orchestra and Live nation that promotes the music acts.  There is a feeling there that any improvement they do on the audience side will just get destroyed by a live nation show.  Every year they re-sod the lawn and it is shot by ballet season due to the live nation shows.  

Concert venues get ridden hard and put away wet.  You go to any shed or arena in the country and you'll see the same thing.  I've worked in a lot of them and they are all the same run down places.  It takes about a year for a new one to get worked in and look like all the rest.  Capital projects are hard due to the fact that if it ain't open, it ain't making money.  

Just interested... what do you want to see upgraded in the building?  My eyes are so adjusted to how the world is and how I analyze venues that I can't put myself in the boots of a regular patron.    

Compared to many other venues I have been to around the country the problem with Spac is that the second deck limits the lawn view to a very small window ofthe lawn.  This forces people to cram into that window.  If you were going to blow the place up you would not rebuild it that way.

The show was fine for me.  What needs to be fixed is not that expensive.  More bathrooms.  Another bridge or two over the stream to improve the exit.  Another exit from the parking lot one that only goes north another two or three lanes that only goes south.

Better staffing
We saw an usher spitting from the bridge that gives to the upper bowl seats into the lawn area.  After the show when the line wasn't moving over the bridge we went back by the trees to wait it out.  Several other families did the same and ushers were yelling at us to move when there was literally no where to go.  The cop blocking a exit lane could be actually dire ting traffic instead of just being in the way.

It almost as long to get out of the the venue and then the parking lot as it did to drive home 90+ miles away.  

Coach Z wrote

That town is raking in the dough and needs to fix that place up.

Just to expand on Footer's excellent explanation...

#1, the "town" (i.e. the City of Saratoga Springs) isn't raking in anything. The City has no ownership stake in and receives no revenue from SPAC. Obviously the City indirectly benefits from spending on lodging, restaurants, etc by  SPAC visitors.

#2, SPAC itself isn't exactly "raking in the dough."  Live Nation's licensing agreement with SPAC gives Live Nation the exclusive right and license to book, promote, produce, and present all "popular concerts" (pretty much everything other than the ballet, orchestra and other classical performances).  In consideration of a guaranteed fee paid to SPAC each year, plus a percentage based on attendance, Live Nation is entitled to all revenues and bares all financial risk associated with the promotion, production, and presentation of each such event.

That agreement ^^ generated a little over $1 million to SPAC for each of the past two years ended 12/31. While that's not exactly chump change, it basically amounts to a few bucks per ticket.  As I'm sure Footer can explain, the lion's share of ticket sales go to the promoter and the artist, not the venue.

The $1 million from Live Nation goes to offset the cost of the classical (i.e. NYC Ballet and Philadelphia Orchestra residencies, plus other classical performances) programs SPAC presents.  Even with the $1 million from Live Nation, ticket sales for the classical performances don't cover costs, so SPAC undertakes significant fundraising through memberships, sponsorships, gifts and grants.  The end result is that SPAC roughly breaks even each year.  Total budget is around $8+ million.

Coach Z wrote

The venue looks as it was build in the late 60's or early 70's and not improved since.  Kind of like the original Cowboys stadium cool at the time but now it is concrete dust that houses a parking lot and replaced by Jerry's yaall Mahal .  Just about every venue from that era has at min gone thru a major referb while most have been blown up and rebuilt.  It's the equivalent to the pre Gondi WF and current one which one do you want to ski?.  Time to upgrade or explode SPAC.

Coach, you know that kid you're always busting on for whining about older chairlifts and snowmaking improvements?  Ya gotta admit, you're starting to sound a lot like him here^^...

ScottyJack wrote

It's been awhile since I've been to SPAC but man I always had the best time at a show there.

And that's why SPAC is the #1 Outdoor Concert Venue in the U.S!

You have to remember, the place was built for and by the ballet interests. Well before amplified rock and roll became a huge business for bands in the USA. That "window" actually keeps the sound of an unamplified orchestra "inside" the venue. It's pretty good for that, considering it's an outdoor venue. I saw a few orchestras rehearse from the upper seats (I would end my road rides in the park, and slowly make my way around. A few times they were rehearsing, and those concrete ramps going up to the upper seats are rideable). The place is not a good rock venue. Well, for a loud band. I saw Brian Wilson there in 07, and he had a big band, but, they kept it under 11, know what I mean? So, he was OK. He's OK, anyway. It is a great place to hang for a night, though, if the weather is nice.

When I arrived in Saratoga in 04, there was a huge controversy boiling in town. The old people who ran the place were actually going to drop the New York Ballet, and try to fill the place with other regional classical music, either ballet or orchestras. That was too much for the locals, especially the locals with money, and they got Joe Bruno (remember him?) to take it all over and fire people and put his own people in charge. There's always been that tension of rock vs classical, but, both bring their fair share of money into town at various times, so it would be dumb to favor one over the other. They have done well trying to balance things, I guess. Damn well wish I had that place in my backyard again. Miss that town.

I saw The Doors there when I was 15. That is my concert claim to fame.

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

I saw The Doors there when I was 15. That is my concert claim to fame.

WHOA!!!! The Doors....that's trippy