Second/Third homes: Rant or clue me in.

 Second Home Owner Rant

If the town/county really wanted to spur growth.  Focus on, don't avoid the second home community; stop taxing second home buyers at the rates they do.     Taxes go into purchase decisions.     This may not be the place to start this war(if anyone wants to become engaged) but in my short view, homes sitting vacant cost the local community less than someone who is there****, yet the taxes are equal and in some cases higher--school tax for example.  Second home owners can't vote in local elections but are controlled by those who do.  NOTE:  I understand locals homeowners are paying higher taxes because second home values then inflate primary home values, but bottom line value is value.  Just because values go up does not necessarily mean the tax rate has to go up...locals can vote to change taxes to a flat rate based on sqft for example.   Its your local goverement that wants (or wanted) rates to inflate as home values increased.    Notice how it was spent as fast as they got it?   Now that land/home values are decreasing, the officials down south (where I vote) are considering "freezing" the rate.     God fobid that any of the excess tax revenue was banked or buried for future lean years.  

*****  I am not saying homes with people in them don't benefit the community more, they do so in 1000 ways.       But unoccupied homes don't cost the community more to manage.  Don't post that more police are needed to address crime.  Theives breaking into a vacant home is not the problem of the homeowner, its the theif.    If there were a field where my house is, what is the cost to the city/county.   Now put a house.  What is the additional cost?  Are the taxes commensurate?        
   
The town/county can embrace second home owners or reject them.  They do the latter at their own peril lest they figure out a better way of attracting income. North Creek, like many small ADK towns is getting older and poorer, the tax base is shrinking and social expendatures like housing, healthcare, food stamps and heating subsidies are increasing. Increased costs also occur in poorer communities due to increased police and ambulance service.   I may be dead wrong, but beside goverment jobs, local, State, Fed....the number one employer I see when visiting in this area is construction, the jobs associated with toursim is second.     Both of these are linked visa via second homes, rentals,  hotels, B&Bs.  

I  have agreed with much of what Godspeed has done for the town/community, his following statement however worries me... " The town is not intending to be an opponent of the project, nor is the town intending to be a supporter of the project. "    In war they say...if your not for us, your against us.    See paragragh above.  If the town may "ultimately" have to take on some of the expenses should this venture fail, I would  also assume this is within an area that would be collecting the massive amount of taxes on each of these generally vacant homes.  One would think whoever is collecting the taxes would be the one then responsible for upkeep if failed.     Wasn't the town going to send some of it's sewage to this development's plant? Isn't there a need to upgrade the town's sewage, was Front Street's plant part of this plan?   Or,  perhaps the developer was being required to "allow" upto a certain amount of sewage from the town or ORDA etc.      This might be one reason alone to be an agressive proponent, excess sewage capacity.  Another reason to be a proponent would be that is ultimate failure may cost the town by having to take it over, as cited.      Analogy:  Welfare,  because this is exactly what we are talking about.    Should the town be in favor of a man getting a good paying job or neutral?     If the man does not get that job, the town may have to otherwise pay some sort of support for the man or his family.    Having said this, the town would be correct in saying it should  not favor one developer over another, but in any event, it should favor development for both active and passive reasons as noted.    

This thread was not intended to be about Godspeed, rather is a second home rant.   Godspeed maybe protecting the town's interests (I am not familiar with how the lines are drawn and who gets what tax base.   Example, If a drug store opened in Front Street, the NC drug store would suffer, thus Godspeed would have full justice to be against a Front Street drug store).   I am sure there is a lot more to the Front Street story than NPR or News Enterprise can print or readers wish to read about.     Bet there could be 10 paragraphs on the reason for the delay on sewage alone.

To the point:   What (In reality) beside tourism and second home owners can bring income to ADK small towns.       Then...Do we tax the rich (using political terms since we are only 4 weeks from an election) or reduce taxes on the rich.    Decrease the individual rate which then increases the volume.   Less tax times a lot more volume equals more.         These are two theoritical ways to increase tax revenue. The first idea may or may not bring in more money, but does nothing to spur the economy.    The second idea, also may or may not work, but in any event any person who invests here, spends money locally either with contractors or resturants/grocery.       NY city found out this year that more millionaires moved out  than in...when taxes were raised on this select group.   So did a local county in Md who had 132 millionaires in 2007.  In 2008 taxes were raised and 47 moved out of the county, tax receipts went down,not up.   Want to stop smoking, add taxes.     On the otherhand, want people to add insulation or better windows, subsidize it.     Not looking for a hand out....just a break.      

Look to real life events:  In Florida which used to be a haven for snow birds...taxes were cheep.    When towns needed money they started taxing the snow birds--who could not vote.    Now snow birds pay double or sometimes 3 times the property tax as locals.   Result:  Snowbirds are moving to SC and NC--who are offering incentives; investigate these towns and watch their economies, growing or shrinking?   New businesses moving in to accomodate the elderly, those businesses are owned by locals who were there or are moving in, with families, which create other needs/businesses.        

I am saying lets attract some snow birds of our own definition.     Those who like snow under their feet, whether their hair is white, brown, blond or black.                

When we bought our lot the taxes were about $300 annually.  Now we pay about $4000.  The town provides roads and plowing as well as law enforcement.  Other than that I am unaware of any other services we receive, yet they are charging us $3700 more than they were getting from the undeveloped lot.

CONTENTS DELETED

Whoa, GSM, 4g on a house in NC? Either that's a extremely nice house or that's a very high rate.  If taxes are high in NC now, you just wait until/if the Ski Bowl Village is built. A few years down the road, even HRHQ may have very high taxes.

Yea, this quote from Stirling Goodspeed is laughable....

"The town is not intending to be an opponent of the project, nor is the town intending to be a supporter of the project."

WTH! Stirling's been the Numero Uno, RA! RA! RA! cheerleader/frontman for this project from the get go! He can't deny that. Now he's trying to backtrack? It looks like he knows there's bad news coming.

I find it very odd he's trying to back peddle now AND he says the Town will be on the financial hook if FS fails.

Zillow

Goreskimom wrote

When we bought our lot the taxes were about $300 annually.  Now we pay about $4000.  The town provides roads and plowing as well as law enforcement.  Other than that I am unaware of any other services we receive, yet they are charging us $3700 more than they were getting from the undeveloped lot.

As far as I know the town does not provide law enforcement, the state does.

 When you say lot I assume you have a house with some land. My 1300 sq ft townhouse with just the land under the unit (about 25 feet by 25 feet or 625 sq ft) had a tax bill ot $2850 in 2009. It is now $3400. I am sure there are many larger houses with land in NC that pay a lot less than $3400.

A quick tour to zillow shows 80 Main St in North Creek for sale. It looks like a 2 family income producing property. It has 4 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms. The house is 1512 sq feet and has a 3484 sq ft lot. The 2009 taxes were $1425. So we have a bigger income producing property on a roughly 45 x 70 lot in town paying half of what I pay.

Is that not good enough? How about 627 Peaceful Valley Rd just 1/2 mile from Gore. Here we have 4 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms with a house of 1500 sq ft. The lot is 87,991 sq ft or around 2 ACRES. The taxes in 2009 according to Zillow
were $2078. Nice.

This is why the town has no money and so many unfinished projects. They refuse to equalize the property tax. The vast majority of full time residents underpay when compared to the maybe 150  "vacation" houses. Basically I get to subsidize the people of NC who utilize the schools and live in town year around.

If something sells at Front Street for $750,000 I will be suprised. But if they find that person, does anybody care to guess the tax bill?


 

Very interesting X. Very unfair taxes also. How can it be so uneven? Almost seems intentional. The examples of your small property/house paying more taxes than a larger downtown, income producing property are very enlightening. Do you have city water/sewage?

Wonder how big GSM's property is? I was assuming it was smallish like the other ski cabins here when I posted previously.

What's Harv paying on HQ? Here at West Mountain, I pay $4300 on a really nice house. The taxes in Lake George are about the same-both are lower rates than what you guys seem to be paying on the ski cabins.

There's no way I would pay 750g for a duplex unit. I wouldn't pay 100g for a duplex. I would never buy a duplex to live in.Why? Too many a-holes nowdays that could make your life miserable.

The County also provides police protection for NC. The County Sheriffs maybe the main law enforcement. They're the only ones I've ever seen sitting at the intersection in Weavertown watching for speeders or on the road up to NC. Sometime you see the Staties but not often.

Our house is on one acre.  It is 1300 sq. ft. It is 3 bedrooms and 2 full baths.

"This is why the town has no money and so many unfinished projects. They refuse to equalize the property tax. The vast majority of full time residents underpay when compared to the maybe 150  "vacation" houses. Basically I get to subsidize the people of NC who utilize the schools and live in town year around."


The town has no money because it has no real economy, therefore, no jobs and commerce to tax. it has unfinished projects because those projects are conceived and developed with unrealistic expectations and poor funding. And, as far as "unfair" taxing of "tourists" or, second home owners, Vermont has the right idea dealing with this - tax 'em! Nothing can skew and, essentially, destroy the organic economy of a mountain town than the dependance on an expensive second home market that are only occupied a fraction of the time each year, and yet, drive the cost of housing and living in that town to the stratosphere - re: Aspen, Jackson, Sun Valley, Crested Butte, Telluride, Breckenridge, etc, etc.. So, tax the rich who can afford to buy 750,000 condo in your backyard. Trust me, they ain't bringing anything of value with them except maybe low paying servant, whoops, service jobs.


Anyway, I'm looking to retire to a low tax western ski town (not Aspen!) rather than somewhere in NY and Vermont. You can expect those property taxes to go up all over the state as the corrupt political machine in this state rapes the taxpayer to pay for their failed policies over the next few decades as the public deficits come due. Somebody has to pay for public employees on all levels retiring at 55 with benefits that would impress a Wall St. crook, and, it's going to be you and me. Watch out for the state income tax to rise, too. Nevada and Wyoming have none. Zero.

 

Benny Profane wrote

The town has no money because it has no real economy, therefore, no jobs and commerce to tax. it has unfinished projects because those projects are conceived and developed with unrealistic expectations and poor funding. And, as far as "unfair" taxing of "tourists" or, second home owners, Vermont has the right idea dealing with this - tax 'em! Nothing can skew and, essentially, destroy the organic economy of a mountain town than the dependance on an expensive second home market that are only occupied a fraction of the time each year, and yet, drive the cost of housing and living in that town to the stratosphere - re: Aspen, Jackson, Sun Valley, Crested Butte, Telluride, Breckenridge, etc, etc.. So, tax the rich who can afford to buy 750,000 condo in your backyard. Trust me, they ain't bringing anything of value with them except maybe low paying servant, whoops, service jobs.


Anyway, I'm looking to retire to a low tax western ski town (not Aspen!) rather than somewhere in NY and Vermont. You can expect those property taxes to go up all over the state as the corrupt political machine in this state rapes the taxpayer to pay for their failed policies over the next few decades as the public deficits come due. Somebody has to pay for public employees on all levels retiring at 55 with benefits that would impress a Wall St. crook, and, it's going to be you and me. Watch out for the state income tax to rise, too. Nevada and Wyoming have none. Zero.

North Creek is in its current state because , until recently, they have rejected the only economy they have - tourism. Years ago the town agreed to have Rt 28 go around the town. I think it is the only town in the Park with a bypass. Think of all the business that just drives right by North Creek. They have fought anybody who had any vision. Elliot Monter built the Copperfield Inn, the shopping center in town, Border and Mountaintown, owned the land that Front Street now owns, and tried to build a golf course. He was well capitalized. After over 25 years he left.

The unequal property tax has combined with some other issues (North Creek attitudes, ORDA, The APA, New York State ) to create proof that "Tax the second home owners" does not work. The opposite has happened. By keeping out development, the tax base is unable to support the town. Comparing NC to anything out west is not accurate to your point. There is still affordable housing in NC. My townhouse cost $109,000 in 1987. I doubt I could sell it today for $150,000. That is some return in 23 years. As I have shown in a previous post, for 23 years I have been paying way more property tax while use zero services from the town. By the way I am not rich. If I was rich( and smart) I would have bought in Vermont.

Benny Profane said
'Trust me, they ain't bringing anything of value with them except maybe low paying servant, whoops, service jobs."

This quote is mean spirited and unfair. Paying double the property tax while not needing town services are pretty valuable. When I come up for the weekend I am spending money in NC.  Most vacation towns have figured this out.I guess it is better to have no jobs, no small businesses, and no hope. Is it better for the local population to be on unemployment? Who pays for unemployment? Jobs are a big problem in the Park. So while you mock these jobs, I am sure there are people who would like to have any job, including what you refer to as servant jobs. Maybe you should define service jobs. Where I live most of the plumbers, electricians, roads crews, framers, roofers, tile workers, etc. are doing fine.

We should do a retirement thread. I agree that the East coast is out for me.

Like I said, spend a little time in Aspen, Telluride, Crested Butte, or some other western ski town that was so desperate to have any, any I mean any kind of commerce come to their dying town (yes, they were all just dormant mining towns at one time) that they sold their souls to the developer devils and now, if they haven't been forced to move away to a cheaper place, have to drive an hour into town because they can't afford a million dollar shack to do relatively menial service jobs for the wealthy tourists who build 20 million dollar 20,000 sq. ft monstrosities on ridgelines and only use them for Xmas and Spring Break. Is that the economy you want? Probably, because you'll have first dibs on the ponzi scheme of the real estate bubble, and be able to sell your place at a nice profit, right? Along with all the others who want to cash in and just move some place warm and cheap that has jobs. Well, that game is over. Real estate speculation is in the rear view mirror, and North creek, along with Tupper, is going to have to figure out some other biz model to survive.

Besides, like I said in another thread, if there was a REAL organic market up there, you'd have a thousand condos at whatever Front Street is by now. Face it, NC just does not have the demand, for whatever reason.

Wow, where to start. I guess I'll try and hit at least some of them.

First, NC is not the only town with a bypass. Generally, when the state wants to improve transportation that is one thing they do to improve traffic flow. Look at Chestertown. Route 8 used to go through the center of town. Now it bypasses it along with all southbound traffic going to 87. Bypasses around towns are common. Route 9 bypasses South Schroon. Old route 9 used to go right through. Rt' 87 bypasses all the towns. In the late 60's when it went through, thousands of small motels along route 9 went out of business. No other bypasses? Maybe not in your short time here, but it's been happening for a long time, mostly, done by the state with very little local influence.

Second homes do cost the community as much as first homes. Same as me, you need to have your roads maintained and plowed (often on dead end subdivisions that only have a few homes in them) and fire protection. County Sheriff's provide enforcement with state police and you still need a place to take your garbage. Additional construction, especially those that are on marginal lots like so many second homes are on, also warrant increased zoning enforcement, since things like septic systems have to be specially designed and installed and therefore must be checked. Speaking of fire protection and ambulance service, did you know ours are volunteer? How many second home owners are members? Do you remember how much it cost to put in that little drive way into your place. It was expensive. Almost as expensive as it is to annually maintain that section of road that goes by the end of your drive. The town of Johnsburg has 300+ miles of road to maintain. Divide it among the number of lots and you start to get an idea of how expensive it is.

Why do you think the APA came to be? Not because the locals were out raping the land. It was because of the rampant second home development that threatened the Adirondacks as we know them. If you come from a 1/10 acre lot on Long Island, then a 1/2 acre lot on a pond seems like paradise. Who cares if there are 300 lots around that pond, it's still better than home. Fortunately on the 1/10 acre lot you have public water and septic.  Unfortunately that's not an option on the pond and so density must be controlled by someone that is not influenced solely by $ like second home developers.

Let's talk about the environmental impacts of second homes. For the amount they are used they are enormous. (take a lesson from Harvey. Come to the mts' to enjoy the mountains, not to sit in your huge, glass enclosed houses and look at them.)  Most are heated whether or not there are people in them. I know you like to ski, then why do you go out of your way to increase global warming? Design your second house small and drain your pipes and start the heat when you come up. If the house is designed correctly, this is easy. How about that street light that burns every night on the outside of your garage. What are you afraid of? Snow snakes and barking spiders? More energy waste and light pollution. Let's not citify the woods.
 
Taxes - Are you talking about land tax alone or combined school taxes and land tax? How do you value land? I have land that I have no intrest in developing and yet I am taxed for those development rights. Why? Because of second home developement.

Can't afford the taxes on your second home? I can't feel too sorry for you. Most of us locals can barely afford the hovel we're in, to say nothing of a second home. My second home is a tent when I go camping.

There's my rant/futile attempt to clue the clueless.

<quote author="Benny Profane">
Like I said, spend a little time in Aspen, Telluride, Crested Butte, or some other western ski town that was so desperate to have any, any I mean any kind of commerce come to their dying town (yes, they were all just dormant mining towns at one time) that they sold their souls to the developer devils and now, if they haven't been forced to move away to a cheaper place, have to drive an hour into town because they can't afford a million dollar shack to do relatively menial service jobs for the wealthy tourists who build 20 million dollar 20,000 sq. ft monstrosities on ridgelines and only use them for Xmas and Spring Break. Is that the economy you want? Probably, because you'll have first dibs on the ponzi scheme of the real estate bubble, and be able to sell your place at a nice profit, right? Along with all the others who want to cash in and just move some place warm and cheap that has jobs. Well, that game is over. Real estate speculation is in the rear view mirror, and North creek, along with Tupper, is going to have to figure out some other biz model to survive.

Besides, like I said in another thread, if there was a REAL organic market up there, you'd have a thousand condos at whatever Front Street is by now. Face it, NC just does not have the demand, for whatever reason.
</quote

Why are you so bitter about service jobs? What happened when you were spending time out west? Was it beneath you to wait on tables or clean hotel rooms or load chairlifts?  Do you think having no jobs is preferable to service jobs? It seems like you do.

The western ski areas that were dying towns are nowhere near any population centers. Those who chose to stay helped shape what happened to those towns. Decisions made 50 years ago in an effort to save the towns brought the towns where they are today. I am sure there are dozens of other potential ski towns that are ghost towns now. Is that a better result? I do not presume to know the answer. You also continue to ignore the fact that there is affordable housing in NC while bringing up strawman arguments about $20million homes on ridgelines in Aspen. Glens Falls also has some new medical device companies opening. Those jobs are only 40 minutes from NC. Nobody is opening any industry like that in the middle of the Rockies.

Here is some basic knowledge about North Creek: almost 30,000,000 people live within 4 hours of North Creek. Trying to compare that demographic to Denver's metropolitan number of 2.7 million is one reason why your NC - western ski town comparison has no meaning. Another reason is the different philosophies about zoning. In case you haven't noticed zoning in the Park is highly regulated.

As for making money on your misunderstanding of what a Ponzi scheme is, I bought my massive 1300 sq ft place 23 years ago so I could ski, not for the "speculation". If it went up in value - good for me. Last time I checked making a profit is allowed. As it turned out I have lost money. Even if i could sell the place for 400K I will have lost money. Some speculation.

Nothing like election season to bring out the political rants . . .

I'm staying out of this one . . .

mattchuck2 wrote

Nothing like election season to bring out the political rants . . .

Hmm... while sensitive this one doesn't feel like it's against the forum "no politics" policy.

In trying to form an opinion here, I've been looking for a recap of the budget for the town of Johnsburg.  Really any NY ski town would do.  I've googled it nine ways to Sunday and haven't had any luck. I'd love to know what the town spends in total, and how it is divided between schools, road maintenance, plowing, fire, ambulance. I don't even know all the categories. If anyone has a line on where to find the numbers, please post a link.

The tax we're paying for a small house in downtown NJ would make your head spin.  It's 10x what I pay in Johnsburg, but as Keith mentioned, our place is minimal. And actually from an investment angle we've done much better on appreciation in Johnsburg than in NJ. That may also be an unusual case.

I just checked out my Johnsburg tax bill. While obviously much less that my NJ tax, the proportion of school tax to the rest of it is about the same - 65% is school tax.

I look at this a few different ways.

If you think of the town as a "business," and the property owners as "customers" then the town is doing what all businesses do. Trying to maximize revenue.  You set your prices as high as you can, without losing customers. Or without losing enough customers to offset the gain in revenue from price. If I was running Johnsburg I'd do the same calculation.  Has Johnsburg, gone too high? There's really no way to know.  You can't go back and run a different scenario to compare outcomes.

If you look at it politically, I'm assuming officials responsible for budgeting are doing what they think will keep them in office.  It's probably impossible to get elected, by saying "lets reduce taxes on second homes and cut more services and raise taxes on first homes."

If you consider Johnsburg property tax as part of the larger tax structure  - taxation has never really been based on "usage."  I've been in my little town in NJ for 25 years, paying piles of school tax, without kids in school.  And families with kids in private schools are paying for both sets of schools. Those families have something in common with second home owners ...paying extra for something they really want, that's ultimately a luxury, not a necessity.

About ten years ago an employee in our company opted out of our health plan, and asked for the company to re-imburse her for the amount the company was contributing to her health plan. About $5k a year. The problem was that as others opted out — mostly married folks who could be covered by a spouse — the cost for those who remained, mostly young, single people, went way up.  We had to eliminate the practice.

For the 35% of the tax I pay for road, plowing, fire, ambulance, library, tannery pond community center, ski bowl park, and what ever else I get, it's a bargain and I pay it gladly.  For that school tax, I'm not sure what other option the town has.  Could Johnsburg Central survive without revenue, or with less revenue from second home owners?  I don't know. My guess is it would be very tough.

The argument against those high rates of taxation for second homes are long term arguments.  Make it affordable, and you'll have more second home ownership in the future. That could be true.  

I'd like to know ... are taxes on second homes lower in Lake Placid, or Rutland or Burlington? The thing about VT is that with less protected land, the tax base is probably deeper, so it might not be a fair comparison. Maybe if Johnburg was zoned more like Rutland, there'd be a bigger tax base and second home taxes could be lower.

I've never been inside those new places on Peaceful Valley Road, but they seem kinda nice in that spot. Maybe those high taxes are the cost of keeping the road more "peaceful" and less like the Killington access road.

Adk Keith wrote

Wow, where to start. I guess I'll try and hit at least some of them.

First, NC is not the only town with a bypass. Generally, when the state wants to improve transportation that is one thing they do to improve traffic flow. Look at Chestertown. Route 8 used to go through the center of town. Now it bypasses it along with all southbound traffic going to 87. Bypasses around towns are common. Route 9 bypasses South Schroon. Old route 9 used to go right through. Rt' 87 bypasses all the towns. In the late 60's when it went through, thousands of small motels along route 9 went out of business. No other bypasses? Maybe not in your short time here, but it's been happening for a long time, mostly, done by the state with very little local influence.

Second homes do cost the community as much as first homes. Same as me, you need to have your roads maintained and plowed (often on dead end subdivisions that only have a few homes in them) and fire protection. County Sheriff's provide enforcement with state police and you still need a place to take your garbage. Additional construction, especially those that are on marginal lots like so many second homes are on, also warrant increased zoning enforcement, since things like septic systems have to be specially designed and installed and therefore must be checked. Speaking of fire protection and ambulance service, did you know ours are volunteer? How many second home owners are members? Do you remember how much it cost to put in that little drive way into your place. It was expensive. Almost as expensive as it is to annually maintain that section of road that goes by the end of your drive. The town of Johnsburg has 300+ miles of road to maintain. Divide it among the number of lots and you start to get an idea of how expensive it is.

Why do you think the APA came to be? Not because the locals were out raping the land. It was because of the rampant second home development that threatened the Adirondacks as we know them. If you come from a 1/10 acre lot on Long Island, then a 1/2 acre lot on a pond seems like paradise. Who cares if there are 300 lots around that pond, it's still better than home. Fortunately on the 1/10 acre lot you have public water and septic.  Unfortunately that's not an option on the pond and so density must be controlled by someone that is not influenced solely by $ like second home developers.

Let's talk about the environmental impacts of second homes. For the amount they are used they are enormous. (take a lesson from Harvey. Come to the mts' to enjoy the mountains, not to sit in your huge, glass enclosed houses and look at them.)  Most are heated whether or not there are people in them. I know you like to ski, then why do you go out of your way to increase global warming? Design your second house small and drain your pipes and start the heat when you come up. If the house is designed correctly, this is easy. How about that street light that burns every night on the outside of your garage. What are you afraid of? Snow snakes and barking spiders? More energy waste and light pollution. Let's not citify the woods.
 
Taxes - Are you talking about land tax alone or combined school taxes and land tax? How do you value land? I have land that I have no intrest in developing and yet I am taxed for those development rights. Why? Because of second home developement.

Can't afford the taxes on your second home? I can't feel too sorry for you. Most of us locals can barely afford the hovel we're in, to say nothing of a second home. My second home is a tent when I go camping.

There's my rant/futile attempt to clue the clueless.

Clue yourself. You unknowingly proved my point.
Since you reference me in your out of control long winded misinformed rant I will resond to one item - the Rt 28 bypass.
You said: "done by the state with very little local influence." when refering to the bypass issue. I spent a few seconds on Google and found this from the May/June 2010 Adirondack Life:
Link
No matter the size, most business districts in the park rely on sales from through-traffic—youíve probably seen caravans of vehicles snake along main drags in Old Forge, Lake Placid and Lake George. Not that main-street traffic is enough to sustain a community: think blackened storefronts in Port Henry and Au Sable Forks. But ever since the early 1960s, when North Creek's merchants encouraged a Route 28 bypass so local garnet mines' rigs would circumvent their quaint downtown, the hamlet's Main Street has been an aside, a place you wouldn't notice unless you were looking for it. Add to that the 1964 opening of Gore Mountain Ski Area, a grander alternative to North Creekís Ski Bowl, once a tame hill where visitors could unbuckle bindings and tramp downtown for a meal or postcard. Gore was built on the other side of the bowl, with an entrance miles away from Main Street, which meant skiers could ride the slopes, then, oblivious to the hamletís offerings, drive home or to the next town for repast and rest."

Well what do you know? Local influence made the Rt 28 bypass happen. I think that is what I said in my previous post.

By the way, I-87 (a Federal highway) was not built as bypass, it was conceived in the 1950s  by Wash DC for national security. I would say that is a different reason then moving Rt 28 out of North Creek in an effort to avoid mining trucks. That local short sighted view has made business survival in North Creek very difficult.

Hey Harv - please don't make your place any bigger or you are going to make Adk Keith angry.

Lots of good info, pro and con.   My intent to was keep this  civil and and not directed at any one person.   Seems to be working.    

Guess I am being lazy or just dont want to look at my tax bill.     Avoidance.   Some of the issue I have is school tax and using Harv math (not saying it is correct) 65%.   Then there is another school tax--which as I undertand it was recently increased across the board, but then if you were a resident, it was either maxed out or waived?    This was basically an increased tax on 2nd homeowners, who simply do not send their kids to these schools.      Don't get me wrong, I dont think anyone without kids should have to pay school taxes==but then I am not a big social thinking kind of guy.     NOTE:  I pay school taxes on 4 properties and pack my lunches and drink cheep beer so I can afford to send my own kids to private school.        I also thank God that I can do this.      


Locals can vote to flatten the tax....my bet is they are benefitting and like things just the way they are.    

One falasy is (and its been repeated in this thread) just because values go up, taxes have to go up.   Its our politicians (elected by us) that came up with this scheme.     Vote to stop the scheme, unless you benefit by it.    They like it because its hidden, forgotten about and linked with a good thing, values going up.     What would taxes be if each year the officials had to come and ask for a 2% increase?   Would they get it, would/could something be cut?   Would there have been a 35% (average) increase in the past 10 yrs when property values went up and inflation basically did not, or only slightly increased.    

I am truely looking for info---someone mentioned that there are good jobs coming in lake George, thats good.   What about these small towns, are they going to be feeders?   Do our small ADK towns rely on tourism and construction>?  If so, lets embrace it in our tax scheme.   See examples I gave in my first post.    

A developer is building a 1mill home near mine.    I would estimate that 4 local men have been working at the site for the past 320 days.   Based on the trucks and quality of tools I see them using, they are being paid a well above average wage for their trade.  The multiplier affect in this and surrounding communities has significant impact. The unknown to me is that perhaps these workers are driving up from the cities and not local, which would be a shame.      

As an owner of several homes I am now just learning that I used to focus on the fixed costs of my purchase--the purchase price.   Now I am getting to the realization of the variable costs.   My bad.   Taxes and insurance went up on my Fla home from 1300/yr combined to now over $6000/yr combined, in less than 6 yrs.    My Fla neighbors are still paying $800 tax bills to my 3.5k.    Justice?  What is the long term solution, I sell.      The tax rate will go down for the town and any expenses incurred in someone actually living there goes up.    

Someone asked the point of the post,  unless we actually do cost the community more, tax us the same.   In any event recognize that there may be a limit to what someone is willing to pay.   If  you agree with my theory of economics, lower the taxes which will spur more growth.      One recent example to my local area announced today, major corp is leaving the DC area, heading south, for tax incentives.      Like it or not, there is competition among towns, states, areas and countries.  You have to be in the game to get points.      Spectators never win.