Shandaken to NY state: Use 1,200 acres to expand Belleayre

I ski the big Catskill 4 and think all of them have their pros and cons. Hunter has the fire power and gets you out there early season with a good trail count to choose from and spring skiing there is always great and uncrowded. Windham mid week, with their high speed quads can turn out tons of groomed vertical. Belleayre with natural snow can offer  some good alternate routes down the mountain. No natural snow like last season and B can be get boring for a exp skier.  Plattekill has never failed to offer a great day of skiing, regardless of trail count and weather. When talk of skiing the Catskills comes up at my house, first thoughts are always about Platte.

I think Gunny's sentiment expresses how I look at the Cats too. They all offer something for everyone.

I would add: My friends that don't ski well (or board) really dig Windham's ski and stay stuff, they don't have to drive around at all for weekends.  Long groomers, easy, plus teaching programs. 105in, avg.

Hunter: I don't think Hunter gets enough credit for its separate beginner section. Great place to learn. Sure, if you're an intermediate skier looking to ski the main face your options are thin, but if you're an expert it has steeps that keep the goons off. It's really unsurprising to get many diamonds to yourself, even on weekends. Natural potential is off the charts in a big year. 85in, avg.

Plattekill: My favorite, and when the natural is in effect it saves me a trip farther Upstate or VT. Most natural and longest steeps means challenging skiing on soft and delicate snow. Coolest management in the ski biz, one of a handful of mountains that "get it". Only open Fri-Sun, school vacations. 180in, avg.

Belleayre's firepower is overlooked, and their high base elevation gives them an early season advantage. Lots of times I have driven on 28 seeing nothing snow wise on the ground, and when you go up the hill there everything changes. They are often the first open but it takes them awhile to really get started, whereas once Hunter commits you are looking at about ten days for 95 percent open terrain. Less conventional skiing is often possible when not at Hunter and Belleayre: 160in, avg

Domant neighbor Highmount skis literally between Bell and Plattekill. Longer more consistent fall lines, more "Vermonty" trails. I can't recall what the snowmaking coverage is there, but I doubt the pipes are still good. Yet, Any combination of the two areas would make Belleayre pretty noticeable, it'd be the biggest area between NYC and Gore pretty easily. Belleayre puts to shame any Jersey or PA area, so I still fail to see why anyone would rip out the HSQ, burn down the lodge, and let nature have its way on the valley. The skier visits imply potential as does the fact that there is a lot of infrastructure and history there. It is also the easiest drive on bad days to any Catskills ski hill. Despite the way the Cats seem to be laughed about from our neighbors up north, the old roads there are pretty serious and offer a decent amount of exposure. I'm glad every time for my AWD going to any of them.

In summary, I remain cautiously optimistic that ORDA can make this work for every NY skier and tax payer, without being at the expense of Catskills neighbors that don't compete on the same playing field and local businesses that aren't as politically connected as Gitter. The more well functioning these areas are in general the more it raises the visibility of skiing in NY. We aren't going to turn out more skiers by closing the door on these areas and people shouldn't have to feel like they need to get on a plane to get some turns in.

Highmount map:


finishing up a HM day a few years ago:

It would appear that the Catskills already have a primitive earn-your-turns ski area.  Any idea how many people frequent Highmount?

Assuming new snow, optimal temps, and the effect of this post.....  Nobody. There isn't legal Parking or interest with belleayre spinning lifts next door.

I think I've posted this here before, when I hit Highmount the day after the 2007 Valentine's Day storm.

Thanks for all the local insight into the Cats. Let's hope ORDA can make this work for everyone. If we raise NYS profile as a skiing destination, maybe we will all benefit.

ausable skier wrote

  I meant no lifts, no snowmaking, no grooming - just keep cutting the grass and brush and let folks earn their turns.  You can't lose money that way and for some folks they would really dig it in a good snow year.

I don't think you will have any worries about Belle losing money. A couple of improvements and some attention to detail and Belle will have more skier visits than WF or Gore.

Belle needs better snowmaking more than anything else. More snow will mean more skiers. Maybe they can get a deal like Mike Pratt did for some high efficiency guns.

tom

Goreskimom wrote

Let's hope ORDA can make this work for everyone. If we raise NYS profile as a skiing destination, maybe we will all benefit.

A novel thought from a Gore/WF passholder  -- putting this discussion in collective NYS terms rather than me, me, me.

Realistically Orda is not going to totally shut down Bell so my comment before are my reaction to Bell sucking resources away from the Flagship Mts of Orda.

Here is my attempt to be constructive on the matter of Bell

I think that only way Bell makes money is to do something that sets itself apart.  Since it lacks snow, pitch and vert the only thing I can think to differentiate itself is to turn the whole thing into one giant terrian park.   I hear that Mountain Creek has been pretty successful with this concept.  It can do this without any significant capex spending so give it a chance to prove it can make money (or not).  Bell needs a new GM and Aaron the Asst GM at WF grew up a park rat.  Send Aaron down there and see if that concept will actaully allow Bell to turn a profit.  You don't need many lifts and concentrate the snow making to build the features.

If no profit after a few years then its time to cut bait.

Benny Profane wrote

"Shandaken to NY state: Use 20 million dollars of NY taxpayer funds to expand Belleayre"

Please

yeah... Not while teachers are getting laid off...