Ski Racing Kids!

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Z
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Re: Ski Racing Kids!

Z
This post was updated on .
Looks like you are referring to GS radius for u19
It was 30m for girls and 35m planned to go to 30m for boys and now is 17m for both same as u14.  Allows HS kids to race on consumer skis for both HS and ussa.
Definately good for kids that are only going to race ussa at the lower end
My son is not at the very top of being elite but is well above the middle
Not sure if this is good for him as it forces a choice between racing ussa and Fis at age 16 and eliminates the ability to do both as you would need multiple sets of skis and doesn't make sense to train both.  He probably was in the group that was going to benefit from having the choice to race both circuits which was Ussa's intent with the past regs
if You French Fry when you should Pizza you are going to have a bad time
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Re: Ski Racing Kids!

Hoser
yeah I am mixed on this one also as far as their final decision.   too far the other way, too much gap between levels. seems it cared for high school and FIS.  screws the solid USSA athletic once again.   so glad didn't purchase the 25r for GS last year that some of the girls were on.  another throw away size apparently.  does not solve the overall problem for entry level FIS athletes.  Kudos to the NY coaches for pushing back against this craziness in any case.    At least NY gets it
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Re: Ski Racing Kids!

PeeTex
Hoser wrote
yeah I am mixed on this one also as far as their final decision.   too far the other way, too much gap between levels. seems it cared for high school and FIS.  screws the solid USSA athletic once again.   so glad didn't purchase the 25r for GS last year that some of the girls were on.  another throw away size apparently.  does not solve the overall problem for entry level FIS athletes.  Kudos to the NY coaches for pushing back against this craziness in any case.    At least NY gets it
I think those who purchased the USSA GS will be OK, it's the ones that bought the SG that will have a useless set of planks
Don't ski the trees, ski the spaces between the trees.
Z
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Re: Ski Racing Kids!

Z
What did the SG change from?

I was only focused on u14 and 16 which is unchanged at 30m for SG

We will have to see what our coaches tell us to do about GS radius for a u16.  It kind of depends on what the course sets are.  Are they going to set 17m courses or 25m courses.  There was one GS this past winter where the host coach set a Nastar course instead of a legit GS.
if You French Fry when you should Pizza you are going to have a bad time
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Re: Ski Racing Kids!

PeeTex
I did not look closely enough at this, I have to agree, the girls 25m GS is marginally useless. I was thinking the old 183 27m SG was good but the minimum radius is now 30m. I think last years SG was something like a 35M 203 for girls but I may not remember correctly.
Anyway- I would hate having to chase this nonsense
Don't ski the trees, ski the spaces between the trees.
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Re: Ski Racing Kids!

Hoser
Interesting that my daughter's FIS GS skis (183, 30r) are now USSA legal SG for both guys and gals.  May have to post them for sale under the new discipline!

25 would be been good for GS.  For all, HS, USSA, and FIS girls.
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Re: Ski Racing Kids!

Harvey
Administrator
I'm sure if I was paying closer attention I might have been able to understand or figure this out, but.

Can someone give me the layman's version of what is going on?  There were changes made to the gear requirements that were expensive (?) and had some unintended consequences and now they are reversed but not exactly?

What happened?
"You just need to go at that shit wide open, hang on, and own it." —Camp
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Re: Ski Racing Kids!

Hoser
Taking a stab of timeline over last three or so years:
1- FIS increases ski radius in the name of safety (making turns much wider and or skid in tight gate sets vs carve
2- WC racers must adjust format (skid the turns) and Ted Ligety publically opposes
3- Ligety than kicks ass and wins WC GS by over 2 seconds proving adaption while still opposed to change
4- Ligety wrecks knee
5- Multiple WC women wreck knees, FIS stands by safety (as opposed to being in bed with ski manufacturers in Europe)
6- FIS parents forced to purchase new reg skis (approx $1200 inc binding for all levels)
7- USSA parents forced to purchase new reg skis as USSA moves to FIS regs (think 2 pair GS, 1 or 2 SG at $1200 each) SL is ok
8- Athlete drop-out rate approaches 40% in older pre-college ages
9- High school and college D3 also experience declines
10 - Older skis can not be handed down due to regs at younger age changing also
11 - NYS gets it and pushes back against USSA
12 - USSA revises stance AFTER parents spend $1200 for new skis (times 3 or 4 for GS and SG)
13 - USSA went too far as FIS unchanged and USSA too "turny" which then makes skis purchased in #7 above are also obsolete unless a FIS racer headed for D1
14 - Reminder the $1200 per ski & binding set does not include races fees up to $80 a day plus travel plus training
15 - What's next?  TBD on the drop-out rate.....which may be too late for those 14 or 15 and already quit high school, club, and college compeitions due to the expense and "unfun" of having the ski the wide radius GS skis last couple of years.
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Re: Ski Racing Kids!

PeeTex
Excellent analysis!
Don't ski the trees, ski the spaces between the trees.
Z
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Re: Ski Racing Kids!

Z
This post was updated on .
To add to Hosers timeline

The big radius skis at u19  30 for girls and 35m for guys on a high 20's m set made them skid or skidvot turns that put a premium on strength of the kid over technique.  Unless you were a big strong kid these skis were decidedly not fun to ski on.  Hence the higher drop out rate.

Kids like my son (bigger strong and fast but not really super elite) will now have to make a decision at u19 between ussa and fis as the ski and course set will be radically different between the 2 races series and it is not realistic to equip and train for both - it would add a 4th disciple to a kids race training a 17m GS and a mid to high 20's GS.  

The problem is as a u16 do you continue to push the radius up to get ready?  Some coaches setting courses at races especially from smaller programs that don't have athletes headed to fis may be setting tighter courses as a result of this which will make it tough to ski fast on a 23 or 25m GS ski.  My plan was likely to put him a 23m this next year and 25 to 27 the year after that.  I may need to rethink that based on his coaches and Volkl's input.

One thing that is solved is that boys and girls at u19 were racing with different equipment on the same course a lot of the time.

if You French Fry when you should Pizza you are going to have a bad time
Z
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Re: Ski Racing Kids!

Z
This post was updated on .
Interesting article on how NY's Racing organization NYSSRA led the charge to change the equipment rules for USSA

http://www.skiracing.com/premium/major-change-to-equipment-rules-equals-victory-for-ussa-racers

pasting in the text since unless you subscribe to ski racing you may not be able to read


Major Change To Equipment Rules Equals Victory For USSA Racers
 By Sean Higgins - Senior Editor  
 

About a year ago, USSA’s Alpine Sport Committee unanimously voted to approve new equipment regulations aimed at standardizing equipment for FIS and USSA competitions across the country for athletes in the U19 and above age groups. A decision this sweeping stirred up lively debate; after a season of careful evaluation and discussions with individuals at all levels of the sport, USSA has backtracked on past changes and adopted a more inclusive equipment matrix for the 2017-2018 season.

With these new changes, U19 and older athletes will be permitted to compete at USSA races on equipment that adheres to the U16 equipment rules, namely on giant slalom skis that have a minimum radius of 17 meters and no length restrictions. Last season, those athletes would have had to compete on a FIS-legal GS ski with a much larger radius and minimum length restrictions.

The primary point of concern with the old matrix was that it required U19 and older athletes compete on FIS-regulated equipment when racing at the USSA level, a decision seen by many as one that would push countless racers who are either unwilling or unable to make the jump to FIS racing out of the sport for good.

USSA Alpine Development Director Chip Knight established two task forces over the winter to dive deeper into the concerns bought to the ASC by the membership. Ultimately, their findings were the driving force behind this new direction.

“A year ago, the Alpine Sport Committee voted to approve those changes that were put in place last year and in the fall approved a 30-meter GS ski for ladies trying to be proactive,” explains ASC member Paul Van Slyke. “Those votes were unanimous at the time so it’s funny that the work of two task forces that were in place over the course of the winter really changed the focus and the learning that took place was remarkable; it was really a pleasure.”

Van Slyke also says that more people have become sympathetic to the smaller pockets of recreational-track USSA racing found in parts of the country not traditionally known for churning out U.S. Ski Team athletes or NCAA Division I skiers.

One such pocket of the country exists in New York state. With the exception of clubs in the Lake Placid area and a few athletes from small clubs who have risen to the national team ranks, much of the racing in the state is geared more toward the recreational USSA level. Not surprisingly, last season’s regulations hit the New York State Ski Racing Association’s (NYSSRA) membership hard.

“A year ago when the ASC made [its] ruling, in our opinion, they just still didn’t understand,” says NYSSRA Treasurer Mark Sertl. “In our belief, there was still this big disconnect between the FIS program and club-level kids. That was just very frustrating that there was no representation on that committee of grassroots athletes.”

Although the initial ruling disappointed Sertl and some other NYSSRA officials, the group did not see the setback as the end of the road. Instead, they put in some hard work last fall and winter crafting a strategy to address the situation.

“Basically, we thought we couldn’t quit,” he says. “We had a couple conference calls with Tiger (Shaw) and Chip and in the fall they were still very polite listening to us but made no assurances that anything was going to change. Given that, we just decided that we had to go do it ourselves.”

Instead of pursuing a traditional route of recruiting older coaches and officials to come around to their way of thinking, they instead targeted the various athlete representatives on the Eastern Alpine Committee in order to shore up support for an eventual proposal to amend the equipment rules. Sertl says that athlete representatives were chosen because of their recent racing experience which ultimately made them more open minded about changes.


New equipment rules aim to make things easier for recreational USSA racers. Image Credit: USSA

These bottom-up efforts were the driving force behind Knight’s decision to form the task forces in order to look into how the equipment rules affected racing at the USSA level as well as domestic development as a whole. The findings from these task forces as well as a meeting between Knight and various U16 coaches at last season’s U16 Nationals in Sugarloaf, Maine, served to further Sertl’s cause.

“Chip Knight did a fantastic job organizing a meeting with our highest-level U16 coaches, and that meeting really changed the whole focus of the task force,” Van Slyke says. “The comments that came back were enlightening in terms of how they saw USSA ski racing.”

Knight and the rest of the ASC concluded that in the United States, U19 competition is separated into two different categories: FIS racing and USSA. Although most U19s do race at least some FIS, there are a significant number of athletes who only race USSA and compete on a more participatory basis rather than an elite one.

The ASC’s volte-face on this issue is a shining example of how USSA and its membership can work together to change rules or regulations in order to better serve athletes of all ability levels.

“Tiger never shut us down,” Sertl says. “I give him a lot of credit for that because I’ve been on this equipment horse for a long time and I’ve never really had much support at all. And Tiger, once he became CEO, he certainly listened to us.”

“When you look back, it’s hard to believe that we are a stark opposite from where we were a year ago,” adds Van Slyke.” But I don’t think there’s anybody involved that doesn’t believe that we ended up in the right place.”
if You French Fry when you should Pizza you are going to have a bad time
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Re: Ski Racing Kids!

Hoser
Thanks for posting.  NYSSRA gets it.  Good story and great result and a win for the majority of the athletes.
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Re: Ski Racing Kids!

Harvey
Administrator
In reply to this post by Hoser
And thank you for this.
"You just need to go at that shit wide open, hang on, and own it." —Camp
Z
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Re: Ski Racing Kids!

Z
NYSSRA draft race schedules posted for the season

http://www.nyssra.org/schedule/?ageclass=u16

http://www.nyssra.org/schedule/?ageclass=u14

http://www.nyssra.org/schedule/?ageclass=u12

states
U12 Togg
U14  at WF
U16 at combo of Gore for SG and West for GS and SL
U19 at Gore
if You French Fry when you should Pizza you are going to have a bad time
Z
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Re: Ski Racing Kids!

Z
Nysef U14 coach Jimbo Johnston won NYSSRA coach of the year honors for last season for all age groups!!!  
if You French Fry when you should Pizza you are going to have a bad time
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Re: Ski Racing Kids!

tjf1967
This post was updated on .
Yo z I here that kid of yours is kicking ass. Nice job
Z
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Re: Ski Racing Kids!

Z
You heard right
Double Z is NYS u16 champ for Super G
Next up is Easterns at Sugarloaf

He absolutely loves those 40m SG skis he got this yr.  it was a big jump up at first but now he feels like they run fast and hold the edge and line he wants




if You French Fry when you should Pizza you are going to have a bad time
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Re: Ski Racing Kids!

Harvey
Administrator
"You just need to go at that shit wide open, hang on, and own it." —Camp
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Re: Ski Racing Kids!

campgottagopee
That's great Coach!!
Go get em lil Z
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Re: Ski Racing Kids!

Brownski
That’s awesome coach. It’s great to see hard work pay off.
"You want your skis? Go get 'em!" -W. Miller
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