Ski Towns and Suicide

This isn't exactly recent, but I just came across it on TGR:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/adventure-blog/2016/05/16/why-are-ski-towns-suicides-happening-at-such-an-alarming-rate/

It probably 2000 words and obviously heavy. But I read it all and it got me thinking.

Be interested to know what you think.

To me this seems like the smoking gun...

“On top of that, due to the transient nature of these resort communities, their social makeup is often more tenuous. Residents lack intergenerational relationships and deep social attachments, which are protective against suicide. That means that, when faced with issues, people have less support. “They’ve moved away from their natural support systems, and they have to rebuild a support system,” says Michael H. Allen, M.D., professor of psychiatry at the University of Colorado Depression Center“

To a greater or lesser extant, when an individual moves to a ski town, he/she is choosing the lifestyle over thier families. I can’t claim to understand suicide in any way but I feel like disconnectedness from those around you, lack of a good family support system and loneliness in general must amplify whatever it is that drives people to it.

Tough stuff. The dark side of "living the dream". Not a good place when you've spent your life earning nothing, saving nothing, surrounded by a constantly rotating group of either people just like yourself, and your only bond is skiing and drugs and alcohol, or wealthy ner do wells who pull all of it off wearing the latest fashions and always buying new skis and stuff. Then, boom, you're 50ish, and get injured, probably losing your job in the process and no money or insurance to fix your body. Zero support system, parents probably dead by now back home, and highly doubtful there is a woman there for emotional help. Hell, chances for a romantic relationship at this point is out of the question, since you're now damaged goods to the minimal female population. Oh, and, yeah, the rent is two months overdue, and your car won't fix itself. Not a good place to be.

Brownski wrote

To me this seems like the smoking gun...

“On top of that, due to the transient nature of these resort communities, their social makeup is often more tenuous. Residents lack intergenerational relationships and deep social attachments, which are protective against suicide. That means that, when faced with issues, people have less support. “They’ve moved away from their natural support systems, and they have to rebuild a support system,” says Michael H. Allen, M.D., professor of psychiatry at the University of Colorado Depression Center“

To a greater or lesser extant, when an individual moves to a ski town, he/she is choosing the lifestyle over thier families. I can’t claim to understand suicide in any way but I feel like disconnectedness from those around you, lack of a good family support system and loneliness in general must amplify whatever it is that drives people to it.

Why is this different than old people moving to Florida (or wherever) when they retire? Is it the age difference that makes it better for old people (they've already lived their lives, so they don't have the same conflict of expectation vs. reality)? Or is it the financial security (lower cost of living, lower housing prices, and even the old people who were shitty savers get Social Security and free doctors through Medicare)?

I'd be interested to know if the same problems are present in Canadian ski towns, or other countries with universal health care programs that include mental health services.

A week or so ago a local mother died of cancer leaving behind three kids I think the oldest was around twelve.  Just the other day a friend was trying to put the pieces together of whose who and how they are connected. I have a difficult time keeping track of people and all the inbreeding that ski towns provide.  She kept saying his wife killed herself a year or two ago.  A couple hours later I put it all together.  Another friend's wife tried to kill herself about a dozen times over the course of a couple years.  He finally gave up trying to stop her and let her do it.  Another friend of mine had an employee disappear so he went to his house trying to check on him and found him in the closet.   I would never want to be my friend.  A girlfriend of mine went off the deep end for a week or two when a friend of her's used up all the coke sitting around the house, drank, popped a million pills, and stuck a hose from his tail pipe into the car.  Talk about going out with a bang.  The psychologist mentioned that the drugs and alcohol were the liquid courage to make it all happen.  Imagine that.  Something to chew on.  

I can go on and on.  Comes with the territory.  I don't think it's any different than living anywhere else.  Make what you want of it, sensationalize everything.  Create dumb theories  as to why it happens and all the triggers.  On the other hand I could care less.  It's kind of sad, but I am honestly having alot of trouble with cancer taking the life someone without cause or reason.

MC2 5678F589 wrote

Brownski wrote

To me this seems like the smoking gun...

“On top of that, due to the transient nature of these resort communities, their social makeup is often more tenuous. Residents lack intergenerational relationships and deep social attachments, which are protective against suicide. That means that, when faced with issues, people have less support. “They’ve moved away from their natural support systems, and they have to rebuild a support system,” says Michael H. Allen, M.D., professor of psychiatry at the University of Colorado Depression Center“

To a greater or lesser extant, when an individual moves to a ski town, he/she is choosing the lifestyle over thier families. I can’t claim to understand suicide in any way but I feel like disconnectedness from those around you, lack of a good family support system and loneliness in general must amplify whatever it is that drives people to it.

Why is this different than old people moving to Florida (or wherever) when they retire? Is it the age difference that makes it better for old people (they've already lived their lives, so they don't have the same conflict of expectation vs. reality)? Or is it the financial security (lower cost of living, lower housing prices, and even the old people who were shitty savers get Social Security and free doctors through Medicare)?

I'd be interested to know if the same problems are present in Canadian ski towns, or other countries with universal health care programs that include mental health services.

Totally different. We're talking about active males that have hit the end of the line through no choice of their own. Old people who move to Florida usually do it with a spouse, savings built up from a lifetime of working real jobs, possibly a pension, and almost always fall into a vast support system of others just like them in ready built communities long established. And, yes, social security and Medicare help a lot to take the pressure off. This article talks about the 50ish people who have many years before they can think of using those programs, and, even then, SS ain't going to get you much in ski country.

I could easily live in Florida without financial worries (but I won't), but I wont live in a ski town out west because it is no place for an old person of middle class means. No woman, either. Florida ratio of women to men over 55 is pretty awesome.

Interesting point about Canada, though, although housing is still pretty expensive.

Benny Profane wrote

, but I wont live in a ski town out west because it is no place for an old person of middle class means. No woman, either. Florida ratio of women to men over 55 is pretty awesome.

I thought you lived in western ski towns for a few months at a time in winter?

Among this dark subject we have the thought of Benny cruising the grandmas for a date in Sunny FL

MC2 5678F589 wrote

Benny Profane wrote

, but I wont live in a ski town out west because it is no place for an old person of middle class means. No woman, either. Florida ratio of women to men over 55 is pretty awesome.

I thought you lived in western ski towns for a few months at a time in winter?

Sure, yeah, but I refuse to live there. Actually, I can't afford it. No place to be a renter at 70. Can't afford a half million for a crappy old condo.

Z wrote

Among this dark subject we have the thought of Benny cruising the grandmas for a date in Sunny FL

Hey man, don't knock it. Ain't nothing in a ski town for an old guy unless you're rich. Hell, ain't much for a young guy.

Wow, quite the article...have lots to say about this as I witnessed and experienced much discussed in this article 2 seasons ago in LP, minus the drugs, excessive alcohol, and trying to hook with women. Working a personal construction project in LP, and happily married for 33 years, and finding myself at the end of my work contract at 58 years old I did the following, in a pseudo "chase the dream as a 58 yo ski bum", however, with the financial means to pull this off with minimal worry:

1. Took on a 320 sq ft. apartment in LP July 3rd
2. Bought an unrestricted seasons pass to WF
3.Slammed myself day one at WF, just skirting injury, but made me think if I was hurt, how this would pan out in terms of being in LP by myself for months on end.
4.Once season started, skied as many days possible
5. Patronized happy hours most often then not
6. Socialized with all walks of life and financial status
7. Had minimal opportunities to be with my wife on site in LP/WF, so experienced feeling of being single though I knew I was married
8. Had opportunity to see my 3 sons, not as frequent as I would like
9. Drank by myself while in apartment, but not to excess
10. Worked on my project as much as possible, but was shut down by weather thru winter, so basically had feeling of unemployed (which I was) and no opportunity to burn time as if I was working.
10. Day to day rinsing, washing, repeating

All in all it was like a social experiment with the outcome resulting off the beaten path of what I expected. The skiing part was awesome, I did have fun at happy hour, but the feeling of being a single washed up 58 yo sucked. Lots more to this, but reading the article was especially interesting to me, as I basically live part of this, but knowing this was not my real life. No offense to anyone reading this who I had the opportunity to interface with during this time.

MC2 5678F589 wrote

Why is this different than old people moving to Florida (or wherever) when they retire? Is it the age difference that makes it better for old people (they've already lived their lives, so they don't have the same conflict of expectation vs. reality)? Or is it the financial security (lower cost of living, lower housing prices, and even the old people who were shitty savers get Social Security and free doctors through Medicare)?

The difference is people who work years at "regular jobs" outside of resort areas can figure out how to buy a home. If you are in an expensive area, selling your home and buying in a less expensive area like Florida and lowering your living expenses is a realistic option. If you have lived in a less expensive area, there is the possibility that you will have purchased and paid off your home reducing your housing costs when you are retired.

The other difference is the constant working for a paycheck (not cash) leads to constantly contributing to SS. Ski area jobs might have paychecks, but they are seasonal. Also, many resort jobs are cash driven. This means lower SS. These jobs also lack health insurance. One trip to the hospital can wipe out what savings you might have accumulated.

MC2 5678F589 wrote

I'd be interested to know if the same problems are present in Canadian ski towns, or other countries with universal health care programs that include mental health services.

Canada has something similar to SS.
https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/publicpensions/cpp.html

Z wrote

Among this dark subject we have the thought of Benny cruising the grandmas for a date in Sunny FL

Z FTW!  

Go Benny go!

Ewe Z, that's one heck of a visual I'm imagining! Haha!

Anyways, I feel that purpose is a huge part of the human experience. How long before the selfish, youthful pursuit of chasing powder turns and rad lines loses it's luster and we desire something other than that from our lives? I guess that's different for everyone but it's more likely to happen to most of us than being content being alone and skiing our lives away. Skiing is super fun but it's not everything.

raisingarizona wrote

Skiing is super fun but it's not everything.

A few years ago I took up playing the flute.. Made me realize, I could become passionate about other things.  There will come a time when I can't ski anymore - who knows when. That day, I will for sure find something to be just as passionate about.

I read this article a while back too and its shocking. Very... Considering what we spend on the sport and the services often around it - wishing that some of that would trickle down to locals that are needed to service this business. I get bugged by mountains often hiring temp workers from out of country - considering that many locals want the job to be a lift operator during the winter, or for other positions, though understand that EB5 is also needed to improve on mountain services that may also produce more local jobs.

Mountain towns have to change from just being a winter paradise to all year as well.

Skiray wrote

Mountain towns have to change from just being a winter paradise to all year as well.

My impression is that many "mountain towns" are actually busier in terms of the number of tourists in the summer than in the winter.  At least in midweek.  A lot more families take a week or two as a vacation in the mountains somewhere during the long summer school vacation than during the winter.  There are very few ski resorts that survive as winter only.  Even Alta is planning to run the Sunnyside lift for summer hikers.

But finding a job that's actually a 12-month job with benefits in a mountain town is probably relatively difficult.

Skiray wrote

There will come a time when I can't ski anymore - who knows when. That day, I will for sure find something to be just as passionate about.

I know many dismiss this but I seriously recommend getting into nordic skiing. You can do it as aggressively as you'd like, it takes less snow, it's far less costly, it's great exercise and you can probably do it for a long time.  Two inches of new snow is a blast.

It's part of the reason my dream doesn't include moving out west.  With a place at 1900 feet I'm betting I'll get a lot of great days in the future. When there is new snow, Gore in the morning and back to our place for more untracked in the afternoon.

Harvey wrote

Skiray wrote

There will come a time when I can't ski anymore - who knows when. That day, I will for sure find something to be just as passionate about.

I know many dismiss this but I seriously recommend getting into nordic skiing. You can do it as aggressively as you'd like, it takes less snow, it's far less costly, it's great exercise and you can probably do it for a long time.  Two inches of new snow is a blast.

It's part of the reason my dream doesn't include moving out west.  With a place at 1900 feet I'm betting I'll get a lot of great days in the future. When there is new snow, Gore in the morning and back to our place for more untracked in the afternoon.

A sobering article.  We considered lighting out for the north country many years ago, but I had concerns about what would happen as my dad aged.  We're still in NJ.  The north country is still on the table, but a long way off.

From the outside, the ski bum life looks awesome.  But I think that unless you're on track to ski the X Games or the World Cup, you need some additional purpose in life.

Insofar as nordic skiing.  It's pretty easy on the joints.

Peter Minde wrote

 

From the outside, the ski bum life looks awesome.

I haven't read the article --- but I'll say my 4 years of being a low life ski bum was incredibly fun and I wouldn't trade those years for anything. That said, the skiing part (for me) was a small part of it. The lifestyle was the jam. No responsibilities is the key imo. I did it when I was young. My only responsibility was to be at the mountain by 8 AM ready to ski.

I've said this before and I'll say it again ---- every day was a Saturday and every night was a Friday night.  

Yeah, but, then, I assume, you had the sense to get a real job. There's a lot of traders on Wall Street and bond salesman who have your same memories. But they didn't get seduced to the point that they went beyond the point of no return.