Ski area ranking fantasy list

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Ski area ranking fantasy list

skibum
Newyorkupstate.com has been doing a great job as of late keeping our minds off the lack of winter weather by offering a number of ways to rank Upstate New York ski areas: steepest (most challenging) trails, best lodges, top resorts, etc. No offense to the great writers at newyorkupstate.com, but these are pretty much the usual suspects. Along with skiable acres, snowmaking coverage and number of high-speed quad chairlifts, these are the things that ski areas often publicize to attract skiers and snowboarders to their slopes. Of course there’s lift ticket price, too, but since that’s largely a function of how big an area is and how many times you go, we’ll leave that off the list.

Aren’t there other things that are just as important? Sure, having great trails and a nice lodge are a must. Over a life spent skiing at a lot of ski areas, I’ve come to appreciate other factors that don’t necessarily appear in the marketing material. What follows, therefore, is a list of things that I think everyone should think about when choosing where to go. These probably can’t be found on a ski area’s website and admittedly are in some ways a fantasy list. Still, if you want to maximize fun and minimize hassle, keep these in mind.

Most consistent snow surface, i.e. not just snowmaking coverage:
  A lot of ski areas blow a lot of snow (when it’s cold enough, that is). What I want to know is, what does the area do with all that snow? I think the most important result of all the time, energy and water that go into snowmaking is a consistent snow surface. That takes good grooming, and I don’t mean in a tonsorial sense. I’m talking tilling and rolling machine snow that otherwise wears thin and freezes hard.
It’s fairly easy for any experienced ski groomer to lay down fresh corduroy every night, but how good are they at grooming their open spaces into carpet-like slopes with a soft, forgiving edge? Do they refresh the terrain park hits, jumps and half pipe every night? Does the ski area maintain their grooming operations throughout the season, not just during busy season? These are the key questions to maintaining a consistent snow surface (if you have others, please, post away).

Impossible to know this about an area you’ve never been to, you say? Of course! Didn’t I say this was a fantasy list? May I point out that no one knew how many wins above replacement (WAR) a baseball player contributes to his team before someone started keeping track of such new-fangled statistics. Is it such a leap of imagination for someone to start estimating “grooming above replacement” in this hyper-connected, socialized world we live in? I don’t think so.

Shortest amount of waiting, a.k.a. wasting time not having fun on the slopes: This is one ski areas have been dialed into for a long time, ever since the invention of the high-speed quad virtually eliminated the long lift line.  
But that’s not the only place skiers and riders are made to wait. Take the cafeteria line. There’s not much to be done about that, if you insist on breaking for lunch at noon, unless the ski area has the resources and space to create two lines (or at least two cash registers). Judging one’s experience by the amount of time spent waiting in cafeteria lines is a little unfair to smaller ski areas. On the other hand, if minimizing wait times is a legitimate criteria to judge skier experience (see quad chairs, lift lines, above), then doing the same in the cafeteria is something all ski areas, large and small, should be looking into.

Another big source of wasting time waiting is the rental shop. This afflicts the most vulnerable skiers among us: those new enough to the sport that they have yet to buy their own equipment (come on, people: make the commitment, save some dough!).

Anyone who rents equipment knows this wait can be very long because everyone comes in for their equipment at roughly the same time (first thing in the morning). Demand for rentals is also typically highest at the busiest time of the year, on weekends and holidays, which just makes the wait that much longer. Ski areas have been doing more to lower rental office wait times by taking reservations in advance online and setting out equipment before opening for business in the morning. Since this is an obvious (and not all that costly) application of what is becoming everyday technology, ski areas that aren’t doing it are putting themselves at a disadvantage.

Shortest walk from point A to point B to point C to … (okay, you get the idea): Neither skiers nor snowboarders particularly care for long walks. Not to draw attention to the sport’s split personality, but how much walking affects one’s experience depends on whether you’ve got one or two boards stuck to your feet.

For skiers, the rub comes while on foot, or more to the point, potentially in your boots. Anyone who has walked in ski boots knows that long walks from the parking lot to the lodge or even around the lodge - from the cafeteria to the restroom to the ski shop to your locker and back again – are not appreciated, particularly if doing so requires going up and down stairs.

For snowboarders, walking is more of an issue on the slope. While skiers can skate out the flats that often exist between the lodge and the bottom of the lift, or between the top of the lift and the trail head, snowboarders have to kick with their back foot to move across flat areas. Or they just walk, which isn’t really a big deal in those soft, cushy boots they wear. But they don’t look particularly good doing it, so it is an issue, whereas ski skating is cool, unless you aren’t in shape, then you don’t look good doing that, either.

None of these walks are that big a deal by themselves, but when taken together, they can add to the normal frustrations that everyone experiences at a ski area.

Which brings me to a little asterisk on waiting and walking that should be mentioned. These issues can be particularly important for parents with young children who want to pass on the joy of the sport to their kids. Anyone who has ever tried this adventure knows kids can get cranky (keep in mind they can also laugh hysterically and have the time of their life). Needless to say, parents don’t need any added frustrations for their children to melt down over. Lengthy (and unnecessary?) waiting and walking can make or break the family’s experience.

I could include other things here, like what makes for the best après ski venue or how to control moodiness among lift attendants. But these three - snow surface, waiting and walking – are at the top of my fantasy list for ranking ski areas. What’s on your list?
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Re: Ski area ranking fantasy list

skimore
This post was updated on .
You left out how fast the hand dryers are
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Re: Ski area ranking fantasy list

skunkape
I prefer mountains that have free kleenex near the lift line so I don't have to farmer blow off of the chair.
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Re: Ski area ranking fantasy list

raisingarizona
Why do people hate walking so much?

I guess I don't know exactly what you are talking about, how far is too far?

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Re: Ski area ranking fantasy list

raisingarizona
In reply to this post by skunkape
skunkape wrote
I prefer mountains that have free kleenex near the lift line so I don't have to farmer blow off of the chair.
 
I hear they will buckle your boots for you at Deer Valley! :)
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Re: Ski area ranking fantasy list

Harvey
Administrator
In reply to this post by skibum
tldr. this isn't from one of your normally spammy continents.

Can someone give the synopsis.
"You just need to go at that shit wide open, hang on, and own it." —Camp
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Re: Ski area ranking fantasy list

Harvey
Administrator
In reply to this post by raisingarizona
I find that buckling my boots gets harder every day.

Maybe I'm a Deer Valley skier?

"You just need to go at that shit wide open, hang on, and own it." —Camp
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Re: Ski area ranking fantasy list

Snowballs
Banned User
Harvey wrote
I find that buckling my boots gets harder every day.
That's because the older we get the farther away they put the ground.
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Re: Ski area ranking fantasy list

MC2 5678F589
In reply to this post by skibum
Agree that "Most consistent snow surface" should be a priority for ranking. Places that don't get a lot of natural snow, but can deliver a sweet sliding surface should be praised. Same with areas that can recover from thaw/freeze cycles to create skiable softness.

The other two ideas are things I don't really care about. If I couldn't have fun with a long lift line, I'd have missed out on a ton of good days at MRG, some sweet sidecountry days at Smugg's, and my favorite day of this season at Snow Ridge.

The walking thing is weird. I'm in favor of shorter walks (and I hate paid parking taking up all the good parking real estate), but I don't think a longer one impacts my experience in any meaningful way (this would probably be different if I had kids). Most areas are good about having drop off Zones now so it's easier to compromise.

I think that anyone who walks in from a distant parking lot in their ski boots is an idiot, akin to people who clomp around in their ski boots in the bar or village at Après time. Nobody is going to steal a crappy pair of shoes stashed behind a door, on top of a locker, or in a cubby. Just change into your boots when you're in the lodge - it's warmer, more comfortable, and you don't have to hop around on one foot in a muddy ski area parking lot.
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Re: Ski area ranking fantasy list

campgottagopee
In reply to this post by raisingarizona
raisingarizona wrote
Why do people hate walking so much?

I guess I don't know exactly what you are talking about, how far is too far?
I never minded walking in my ski boots until I blew my knee out. Now I can honestly say that walking in ski boots totally sucks ass. You just never know when that bastard is gonna slide out.
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Re: Ski area ranking fantasy list

snoloco
Walking parking lots or base villages in ski boots should be avoided whenever possible.  The former is always avoidable, the latter is sometimes unavoidable.  You will wear down the soles of your boots which may prevent your bindings from properly releasing when they need to.  It is always best to bring your boots up to the lodge and change into them.  If the ski area you're going to has a base village, try to stay out of it as much as possible, or go to a base area that doesn't have a village, if one exists.  This is not always possible.  I've been at Steamboat for the past week and my hotel shuttle drops you off in an area where you still have to walk through the village to reach the lifts.  They have no place to boot up at the base of the mountain and no place to store your bags, so we boot up in our hotel room, take the shuttle to the mountain, and get on the lift.  That's by far the best way to do things, even with the extra wear on your boots.
I've lived in New York my entire life.
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Re: Ski area ranking fantasy list

YUKON CORNELIUS
In reply to this post by campgottagopee
campgottagopee wrote
raisingarizona wrote
Why do people hate walking so much?

I guess I don't know exactly what you are talking about, how far is too far?
I never minded walking in my ski boots until I blew my knee out. Now I can honestly say that walking in ski boots totally sucks ass. You just never know when that bastard is gonna slide out.
My worst injury wearing ski boots (including while skiing) was from walking back to my room in Breckenridge, slipping on a thin layer of snow over a tiled area near a hotel, and spraining my knee pretty badly (think extended lunge with a final outward twist in the front leg w/an audible pop). Missed a powder day the next day and had to limp down the aisle in the wedding I was the best man in the day after that. I try to avoid it whenever possible now. Sitting in the bar watching people ski 10" of fresh pow SUUUUUCCCCCKKKKKKKEEEEEDDDD.
"This is pure snow! Do you have any idea what the street value of this mountain is?"
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Re: Ski area ranking fantasy list

freeheeln
In reply to this post by snoloco
If ski boots weren't made for walking then why do the have Vibram soles?🤔
Tele turns are optional not mandatory.
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Re: Ski area ranking fantasy list

snoloco
My dad got new boots last year and his don't have Vibram soles.  My snowboard boots have them which are also new for this year.  Snowboard boots are so much more comfortable to walk in than ski boots.  
I've lived in New York my entire life.
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Re: Ski area ranking fantasy list

Jon951
In reply to this post by snoloco

Or...slap on a pair of those PITA Cat Traks (sp?) POS things like I do to save your soles! Most boots I've ever owned didn't have replaceable heel and toe pieces, so I started using these things long ago. Agree 100% with the binding words Sno shared. Always try to keep my boot/binding contact points in as best condition as possible.

"Feets fail me not"
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Re: Ski area ranking fantasy list

Jon951
In reply to this post by freeheeln
freeheeln wrote
If ski boots weren't made for walking then why do the have Vibram soles?🤔
Always question the binding release properties when using the boot I own with these soles versus the boots I own with conventional ski boot soles. Seems like there's a lot more resistance at the toe with rotational release with the Vibram sole if Din is set the same way. Yes, if Din is set correctly, shouldn't be an issue, but have set my own release settings in a pinch, which most would consider opening up a complete can of worms in terms of safety. I'm conservative with my Din settings when I do this leaning towards a lighter setting than usual, however realize premature releases can be worse injury-wise in some cases.

My thinking about this started when I submitted my boards for binding mount with my Vibram sole boots and requested a level 2.5 setting. I was told it's level 1, 2, or 3 and there's not custom calculations done to reflect a "half" level. I thought that was complete bs, and decided to do my own calculating to arrive at the half level equivalent. Had the binding mounted and set for level 2 and adjusted from there to arrive at my version of a level 2.5. So far, so good. Hoping it stays this way.

I know quite a few folks who tore up their knees on lift lines, getting crossed up with others unloading, or just having a 1.5 mph twisting fall of shame. I suppose when bindings go completely hi-tech, they'll have the ability to have their Din throttled back for those moments when one skis with a beginner, loads/unloads lifts, or temporarily adjust to some other situation where a ski would not come off due to lack of significant stimulus.
"Feets fail me not"
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Re: Ski area ranking fantasy list

Harvey
Administrator
In reply to this post by skibum
I tried to read this again. .. ZZZZZZZZzzzz sorry.

Did anyone read it? Buy you a burger for a synopsis.

Skibum, if you are real, make a human post.
"You just need to go at that shit wide open, hang on, and own it." —Camp
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Re: Ski area ranking fantasy list

raisingarizona
In reply to this post by snoloco
snoloco wrote
Walking parking lots or base villages in ski boots should be avoided whenever possible.  The former is always avoidable, the latter is sometimes unavoidable.  You will wear down the soles of your boots which may prevent your bindings from properly releasing when they need to.  It is always best to bring your boots up to the lodge and change into them.  If the ski area you're going to has a base village, try to stay out of it as much as possible, or go to a base area that doesn't have a village, if one exists.  This is not always possible.  I've been at Steamboat for the past week and my hotel shuttle drops you off in an area where you still have to walk through the village to reach the lifts.  They have no place to boot up at the base of the mountain and no place to store your bags, so we boot up in our hotel room, take the shuttle to the mountain, and get on the lift.  That's by far the best way to do things, even with the extra wear on your boots.
You need to toughen up a bit kid. :)
Z
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Re: Ski area ranking fantasy list

Z
In reply to this post by Harvey
I appreciate the new guys enthusiasm but you need to be a bit more concise in making your points

I hope he is for real but something seems familiar here along the PowAss lines of rambling posts that don't make sense.
if You French Fry when you should Pizza you are going to have a bad time
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Re: Ski area ranking fantasy list

PeeTex
It's all hinges on the waffle huts.
Don't ski the trees, ski the spaces between the trees.
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