Skiing and Risk

It was a very rough estimate, which is why I gave some large ranges between assumptions of what a "ski day" is.  I was trying to provide an alternative to Billy's statistic of how many people die vs participate, which doesn't factor in how little time they actually spend doing the activity

Also this isn't so much statistics as it is simple math.  Basic statistics is more about comparing probability distributions of numerical outcomes and determining whether two different samples are in fact different from each other.

Anyway I can add one more risk to skiing that's not even from being on skis:  Blood Clots from long car rides or plane rides going to and from skiing.

 I got one and my spring season is done

billyymc wrote

bumps wrote

His litigation against the tree is currently moving through the courts there.

The Judicial Branch.

I meant to express my admiration the other day. Bravo

TheGreatAbyss wrote

It was a very rough estimate, which is why I gave some large ranges between assumptions of what a "ski day" is.  I was trying to provide an alternative to Billy's statistic of how many people die vs participate, which doesn't factor in how little time they actually spend doing the activity

Also this isn't so much statistics as it is simple math.  Basic statistics is more about comparing probability distributions of numerical outcomes and determining whether two different samples are in fact different from each other.

The main problem with your skiing vs gun comparison is only 30%-40% of the population owns or is in a household with a gun and there is a large percentage of gun owners/households do not handle a gun every day. Having a gun safely locked away is the same as having your skis stored in the garage-neither one will kill you. The firearm deaths per year, which includes many locked up guns, is clearly not comparable to your "full population skiing every day deaths per year" for skiing.

I responded to this earlier, but you don't have to own a gun to be killed by a gun.  IT was a comparison to the background death rate caused by guns in society that Billy had initially used as a comparison.

If you're looking for a more direct comparison of an "active" activity, see my comparison to automobile deaths, which roughly estimated skiing to be 2 -2.5 times as dangerous as being in a car (which is pretty dangerous)

Great Abacus, your attempt at trying to draw equivalencies is wrong. Just because your math works doesn’t make the logic right. If you keep trying to spout your bullshit leave my name out of it so I don’t have to reply.

I don’t care that you’re so stupid you can’t see your enormous mistake. Just fucking leave me out if your stupidity as you continue to mislead people.

"I wonder if part of an investigation into a skier death includes a blood tox analysis. Anyone know?"
It is. (My son's was clean as a whistle. Not even a beer at lunch).

Death's alone don't  quantify to danger, there are many injuries also in skiing, some very serious. Please don't donwgrade the dangerous aspects of skiing. I say this for those who are most vulnerable to out of control or speeding skiers, and that is the children on the slopes. I have been wiped out three or four times in the last decade. Once on a quiet week day in a slope as wide as two football fields with no one else on it but the snow boarder who careened into me. Luckily I weigh about 180, if I was a fifty pound kid I would have been taken to the hospital. I have said it before but everyone who buys a ticket has the right to be on a mountain, and if momentarily a slower or younger skier disturbs your pace so be it. I do agree that maybe the Patrol should try and keep less accomplished skiers off of the tougher trails.I don't mean to give them more work but an "ounce of prevention" is better for everyone. Also signage and warnings should be always attended to. How hard is it to put up an icy warning now and then. I also believe that the Patrol should be more pro active in controlling speeding or dangerous activity. If you think that goes against the ethos of skiing, so be it. I have been at places out west where there were patrollers or courtesy workers telling skiers to slow down at crowded junctures, and guess what everyone was still having a good time. I say this as a grandfather with 5 skiing granchildren , all decent skiers but three under 6o pounds. Some day if they persist they will be buying lift tickets to keep the mountains solvent.

As far as Tox analysis , my understanding is any accidental death triggers an autopsy with a Tox,

A great article posted a week ago in the NYT:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/31/magazine/avalanche-school-heidi-julavits.html

An addition to the risk recently is that the machines tuned edges are so sharp they has been a big increase in cut injuries in ski racers.   One just happened a couple weeks ago again at WF.  No deaths that I’m aware of but these are life threatening injuries.  All coaches now carry a stop the bleed kit on them at all times provided by Kelly Brush. KellyBrush is an .org that tries to limit injuries in ski racing.  

I believe that FIS should change speed suits so they are more cut proof.  Their last change made them more air permilable to make them less aero to lower speeds.  I believe they are fighting the wrong battle.

I agree with you that safety should be a top priority but I doubt it’ll happen until after some dramatic tragedy. More puncture-resistant material seems like a no-brainer. Is there a constituency for it within the race community?

I'm not sure the ski suit material will make a difference.  A number of years ago, my buddy's arm got snagged by a tree branch as we were finishing our glade run. He went down. When I got there, he was shaking his arm out and I saw that his hard shell jacket was not even ripped. It was already past 4 and that was our planned last run of the day, so we went back to the lodge and to our respective rooms to change. (This was while we were skiing and staying at one of the mountain lodges at Alta).  I get a call about 5-10 mins later from his wife that when he took off his jacket, his base layer was covered in blood.  That tree branch not only cut his skin but went down and sliced his muscle as well. And, his hardshell jacket was not ripped.  

The FIS seems like a dictatorship to me.  The 35m GS skis were a disaster and they finally fixed it after 4 or 5 years.  They don’t like to change anything within a Olympic cycle.

The more air permibile speed suit was a truly stupid idea as it’s more likely to be cut and is less warm and less waterproof.  Poc makes a cut resistant base layer that cost $220 each for a top and bottom but that is not as good as having a full suit with cut resistance

Next yr they are banning flouro wax though nobody knows how they plan to test for it.  It’s very expensive to test for so it probably only happens at the WC level

Sounds similar to the comments about PSIA in the Greek thread. When these organizations get big they tend to lose something. In this case there is no workaround though. If you want to race you have to accept their rules right?

i piped in on that PSIA topic in the greek thread

to answer your question FIS is a huge org that oversees all skiing alpine, nordic, etc etc.  Its the sport federation that feeds to the Olympic Committeee.  Its huge and doesnt have the ear of the athletes much in mind at all.  Traditaionally it has been dominated by the Austrians.  Many thing the whole 35m ski thing was just an attempt to prevent Liegty from dominating GS and they bailed on it when he acutally beat them at thier own game.  Unfortunately those 35m skis beat the crap out of Ted's body and when FIS went back to 30m Ted is not in good health any longer.