Slides Open

This is the norm out west...just because you arent used to lift accessed backcountry doesnt mean you have to get all funny.  Requiring a beacon in this type of terrain is the norm, they are slides and yes they slide.  That being said, its like any other area of the mountain..you can wear what you want and do what you want.  Want to huck your junk, do it at your own risk.  Some people need to simmer.  Yesterday, as it turns out, they required just a beacon, so that is why some dont have packs or shovels.

I am confused. How do you dig somebody out with a beacon?

yeah, it was beacons only.

Still, doing a BN with a beacon strapped to my chest felt pretty awesome.

Yo don't.  The beacons are for the patrol to find your dead body if you are caught in a slide.  Thats what beacons are for.  Most people are killed in a slide....thats just the way it goes.  

tjf1967 wrote

Yo don't.  The beacons are for the patrol to find your dead body if you are caught in a slide.  Thats what beacons are for.  Most people are killed in a slide....thats just the way it goes.

Don't know where you come up with this, but most are killed from Asphyxia

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2645441/


There were 204 avalanche fatalities with mortality information over the 21-year study period. Of these, 117 victims underwent autopsy, and 87 underwent forensic external examination. Asphyxia caused 154 (75%) deaths. Trauma caused 48 (24%) deaths, with the rate of death from trauma ranging from 9% (4/44) for snowmobilers to 42% (5/12) for ice climbers. In addition, 13% (12/92) of the asphyxia victims who underwent autopsy had major trauma, defined as an injury severity score of greater than 15. Only 48% (23/48) of victims for whom trauma was the primary cause of death had been completely buried.

This doesn't take into account the ones that don't get reported

Survival rates for people buried in avalanches in Canada and Switzerland were almost the same over a 25-year period examined in new research, but there were notable differences in fatality numbers.
 
Data from 1980 to 2005 was extracted from the Canadian Avalanche Centre and the Swiss Federal Institute for Snow and Avalanche Research for the study, published Monday in the Canadian Medical Association Journal.
 
A total of 301 people who were completely buried in avalanches were in the Canadian database, with 946 in the Swiss database. The survival rates in the two countries were 46 per cent and 47 per cent, respectively.
 
According to the study, the Canadian data showed a lower chance of survival at all burial durations compared to the Swiss survival model.
 
However, the poor survival curves for Canada were offset significantly because of faster extrication times, the authors said.
 
Canada's avalanche victims spend less time buried


The median duration for burial in Canada was 18 minutes, compared to 35 minutes in the Swiss sample.
 
Compared to the Swiss survival curve — recording the probability of survival against the duration of burial — the Canadian curve showed a quicker drop at the early stages of burial and poorer survival associated with prolonged burial, writes Dr. Pascal Haegeli of Simon Fraser University in Burnaby, B.C., one of the authors.
 
Chances of survival for Canadians dropped earlier in the curve for a number of reasons.
 
There is a greater chance of trauma-related fatalities in Canada, greatly affecting the victim in the first 10 minutes after an avalanche occurs.
 
Also, Canadian avalanche terrain has more areas of denser snow, cutting the flow of oxygen to someone who has been buried, increasing the chances that person will die more quickly of asphyxiation.
 
After prolonged burials, typically meaning a person has spent up to 35 minutes in the snow before rescue, the Swiss survival rate is higher, largely because rescuers in Europe have shorter distances when transporting victims to advanced medical-care facilities.

There is a lift at Bridger bowl that is only ever accessed with a beacon.  As has already been stated here, the slides were open because there was little risk, the beacon is required to give the patrollers some guage of ability and to weed out masses.  People believe they are better skiers than they r.

Pants wrote

There is a lift at Bridger bowl that is only ever accessed with a beacon.  As has already been stated here, the slides were open because there was little risk, the beacon is required to give the patrollers some guage of ability and to weed out masses.  People believe they are better skiers than they r.

how does having an electronic device on  a person do that? Wouldn't watching someone sidestep up the entrance be a better tell

Caused by the slide.  You have like 20 minutes or you are toast.  There is a chance your buddy will dig you out.  There is a more likely chance you will get dug out dead.  Call it suffication/trama what ever. The slide caused it.  If you get buried in a slide your pretty much toast.  Thats the fact.

Besides the required beacons be able to politley turn people away.  thats all.  

skimore wrote

Pants wrote

There is a lift at Bridger bowl that is only ever accessed with a beacon.  As has already been stated here, the slides were open because there was little risk, the beacon is required to give the patrollers some guage of ability and to weed out masses.  People believe they are better skiers than they r.

how does having an electronic device on  a person do that? Wouldn't watching someone sidestep up the entrance be a better tell

Are you serious? Have you ever skied Whiteface on a typical weekend? Have you seen how many people wind up walking down Excelsior, Mountain Run, Upper Parkway, the Boreen headwall? These same people, or those similar to them, would venture into the Slides given the chance, just to "say they did it".

The point of requiring the beacon is obvious ... a typical resort skier doesn't own a beacon, and probably wouldn't even know what it was if you asked them. The typical resort skier is what they're trying to keep out of the Slides. If someone owns a beacon, or was "savvy" enough to rent one on the chance that Whiteface Management might open the Slides on a particular day, that person PROBABLY (no guarantees), but probably is someone who may be more capable of handling the terrain in the Slides, or at least may understand what is meant by back-country or off-piste skiing. Just because someone can sidestep up a little hill, doesn't mean they can handle the terrain (nor does ownership or possession of a beacon for that matter).

That's all it's about ... decreasing the chances of someone going in there who is completely unprepared for the terrain.

Go ahead ... now blast me.

Ur right on Face...its LIFT serviced with patrol, unlike back country.  A shovel can get anywhere it needs to be within minutes.  brother!

I get the point about it being pretty safe. Also, I did not realize shovels and probes weren't required. The site said they were. In the event that they were, I still don't see why a guy who knows everyone at the mountain would be allowed to ski without them when no one else is.

The deterrent thing is weird. The logic makes sense but I get very freaked out when anyone would suggest that ski patrol is giving me information about avy conditions that is different from their best knowledge in order to serve an ulterior motive. If any kind of regulation about avy safety is based on anything other than the actual liklihood of a slide after careful assessment, that's not okay. That's not something you mess with. If you're saying there's a need to be over cautious with gear, you should make everyone be over cautious. Bending the rules by skier ability is an insult to every pro skier who has ever died in an avy.

I guess you missed the point. You could tell more about someones skiing ability watching them sidestep that entrance over them having a beacon in their pocket

Who cares about all that crap...beacon, shovel, probe, whatever....the dude is BOSS and those pics are cool

tjf1967 wrote

  If you get buried in a slide your pretty much toast.  Thats the fact.

The facts state "The survival rates in the two countries were 46 per cent and 47 per cent, respectively"

And you can tell a lot about people from their posts on a ski forum.  

The beacon concept evolved from patrol standing at the gate asking questions to assess someone's ability.  Talk about a PR nightmare...  How would you feel skimore if someone said you didn't side slip that right, no access for you.  

The reality is some ski terrain is best and safer when kept limited.  Whiteface slides fit that bill.  So get a beacon, shut up and ski!

I for one am super stoked that WF management and patrol opened the slides on Jan 7!    I am 100% for the beacon policy.

And the other guy talking smack about a local ripper hucking off the ledge on 2B,  I was blown away that pic generated such a negative comment.  That was an awesome huck on the perfect day for it.  

ScottyJack wrote

And you can tell a lot about people from thier posts on a ski forum.  

The beacon concept evolved from patrol standing at the gate asking questions to assess someone's ability.  Talk about a PR nightmare...  How would you feel skimore if someone said you didn't side slip that right, no access for you.  

The reality is some ski terrian is best and safer when kept limited.  Whiteface slides fit that bill.  So get a beacon, shut up and ski!

I for one am super stoked that WF management and patrol opened the slides on Jan 6!    I am 100% for the beacon policy.

And the other guy talking smack about a local ripper hucking off the ledge on 2B,  I was blown away that pic generated such a negative comment.  That was an awesome huck on the perfect day for it.

Amen.

Was curious so I checked out Backcountry.com - Avalanche Beacons, certainly an expensive little item unless you do some serious back country stuff.  

Can't see just happening to have one in my pocket

I understand the need to limit who goes into the Slides right now and I do not have a better plan, but taking a lifesaving tool like a beacon and reducing it to an "expert" accessory is not smart. If you are carrying a beacon you should have the probe and shovel.

Anybody reading this thread can now go buy a beacon and pass the test. You can find a PIEPS Freeride Avalanche Search Beacon on Amazon for about $200.00.  

ScottyJack wrote

How would you feel skimore if someone said you didn't side slip that right, no access for you.  

Probably about the same as them using my beacon as judgement.....both are poor

ScottyJack wrote

The reality is some ski terrian is best and safer when kept limited.  

 Agreed. Why not have some kind of added $10  lift tix or something and limit the number