Slides?

tjf1967 wrote

The kid was in a wedge but it looks like he could have been using the wedge to initiate his turn, which in very safe way to ski.   I understand both sides of the story.  Ultimately who's call is it.  If the kid got hurt such is life.. fix him up and give it a try again tomorrow...if the kid want's to.

That is not an ocassional wedge or stem to initiate a turn like campy might use in there.  it's a full out max power wedge with his feet well outside his hips by more than a foot.  Kids do that when terrain is too steep for them and because they think it slows them down.  It's 100% a defense mechanism from being put on too steep of pitch and it impacts their skiing long term.  That little suckers legs had to be toast about halfway down.

I'll go full on slow-dog noodle up in there

Coach Z wrote

.....That little suckers kegs had to be toast about halfway down.

Just about the time he reached the ice falls and REALLY needed them to control his speed and pick his way through!  

I'm glad there were no incidents Sunday.  The Slides are clearly a difficult subject, one that nobody.....not Patrol, not management, nor guests....is satisfied with.
 

campgottagopee wrote

I'll go full on slow-dog noodle up in there

Bro!!!  CampSlowDogNoodle is da bomb camp name ever!!!

ScottyJack wrote

campgottagopee wrote

I'll go full on slow-dog noodle up in there

Bro!!!  CampSlowDogNoodle is da bomb camp name ever!!!

hehe

So easy a 6yo could do it

Coach Z wrote

What would happen if the kid fell?
Could the kid self arrest if he fell in the wrong place?  The Slides are no place to learn these skills.

Agree, especially with the bottom icefall at bottom. It doesn't really mellow down like the bottom of the bowl at Tuckerman.

Possibly due to this thread, the Slides rules yesterday included helmet, buddy and over 10 years old.  Of course, you only find this out once you get off Summit.

The inconsistency and make-up-rules-as-you-go-along is terrible.  I'm all in favour of beacon-probe-shovel-buddy all the time.  They could rent out the avy gear at the bottom by the day or by the hour.  Maybe have a limited number of sets, say 10 in total....that would address the desire to ski the slides but not fork over a huge investment in something that may get used once or twice a year.

At least be consistent.

Great that they were open.  My latest Slides skiing was April 20 a bunch of years back.  Who knows, next weekend gets close to that......

He who holds the gold makes the rules, so prepare yourself for anything and deal is the way I look at it.  Face it, skiing is an expensive sport.  $300 to be used/amortized over the course of 10 years of Slides skiing is not a huge investment.  It is somewhat of a fluid situation.  Some new yahoo decides to do some new stupid thing and Patrol needs to react to prevent that.  Patrol is tasked with keeping the Slides open and viable, in a manner that is least likely to land the State in a lawsuit.  If making up the rules as they go along keeps them viable, and open to as many as possible, then I'm good with that.

And it's not really a debate about whether a 7 year old, non-expert skier should be in, or could make it down, terrain like that.  For a parent familiar enough with skiing that kind of terrain there is plenty of opportunity to do so in the ADK backcountry, the kind of outings on which a kid, if capable, will learn a respectful ton about what the mountains are all about.  But that doesn't mean they are welcome or belong in that kind of terrain in a resort where they are playing with more than just their own well being and money.

It is rather comical to see what requirements they are going to have each day.  I looked that the no helmet  thing and was like they can't enforce that. I mean what the hell do you have the requirements listed on the web site for if you are going to make up rules as you go along.  

JTG4eva! wrote

For a parent familiar enough with skiing that kind of terrain...

This qualifier is doing an awful lot of work for you. But how many parents truly are in this position?

Sometimes people in ski forums assume that other people are just like them (obsessed with skiing, highly attentive to weather events, interested in Backcountry skiing and wilderness safety), when really, the general public (even the general skiing public) doesn't know much at all. People see an open trail, an adventure, and they want to try it out.

Yeah, Whiteface can make a lot of (dumb?) rules to try to stop people from getting in over their heads, but they'll never be able to stop uninformed people from doing stupid shit. Best they can do is discourage the idiots.

If they were sledding injured people out every time the slides were open, then I'd probably be in favor of permanent Silver status - that would succeed in keeping almost all of the riff raff out. But I don't think we're at that point yet.

I probably wasn't clear - I'd rather have the Slides as permanently silver (+partner as it's ridiculous to have avy gear without anyone to look for you) over the current "what new rule can we come up with today" status quo.

does anyone know the number of avalanches that have occurred in the slides since there inception?
how about the number of avalanche rescues?  just curious.

mattchuck2 wrote

......when really, the general public (even the general skiing public) doesn't know much at all.

This is somehow a counterpoint to anything I said?

Let me ask a few questions.  

Would you say this general skiing public should put themselves on, say....the Angel Slide on Wright Peak, or whatever other ADK backcountry slides you think compare to the WF Slides?

If not, is is only because of the risk of avalanche, or are there other ski mountaineering factors that come into play?

If they shouldn't put themselves on that kind of terrain outside of a resort, what makes you think they should be putting themselves on similar terrain inside of a resort?

Do you consider the Slides just another trail, or is it terrain that warrants additional consideration?

Honestly, I'm generally a fan of mountains that let you get into whatever terrain you think you can handle.  That said, I think it's good there are some rules for the slides at Whiteface.  They probably could open them much more frequently, but it's a tall order.  Especially tough when slide 1 has the big waterfall section.  Pretty committing, even as far as lots of the slides in the Adirondacks go.

Out east, I'd say there's a somewhat more of a bi-modal distrubtion of skiers that would venture out to place like the slides: Those that are well informed, and those that have no clue what they're getting into.  Similar mentality can be found on Mount Washington in the spring.  

I think people should just be happy that the stuff is open at all.   It's tough to find a relevant comparison, because honestly, I've never seen in bounds terrain anywhere like the slides at Whiteface...that's part of what makes them pretty cool.

Adrider83 wrote

I think people should just be happy that the stuff is open at all.   It's tough to find a relevant comparison, because honestly, I've never seen in bounds terrain anywhere like the slides at Whiteface...that's part of what makes them pretty cool.

I find myself thinking this a lot when I ride the summit chair and look over...

Would be a shame If they ever decided to say F it and not deal with the complaints and hassle of the slides

ADmiKe wrote

Adrider83 wrote

I think people should just be happy that the stuff is open at all.   It's tough to find a relevant comparison, because honestly, I've never seen in bounds terrain anywhere like the slides at Whiteface...that's part of what makes them pretty cool.

I find myself thinking this a lot when I ride the summit chair and look over...

Would be a shame If they ever decided to say F it and not deal with the complaints and hassle of the slides

But then you could just go without asking.

ADmiKe wrote

Adrider83 wrote

I think people should just be happy that the stuff is open at all.

I find myself thinking this a lot when I ride the summit chair and look over...

Agreed, which is really the only reason I have an opinion on the subject.  Really, I'm not generally a fan of taking away personal responsibility and telling people what they can and cannot do.  People want to put their kids at risk someplace that couldn't potentially affect me....have at it.  By this time, I don't think complaints and hassle are going to shut the Slides down, but significant liability issues speak louder.....and potential liability most likely increases as the technical ability of skiers decreases.  As such, a barrier to entry that weeds out some of the tykes and gapers is a necessary thing.

raisingarizona wrote

But then you could just go without asking.

Yeah....but, depending on how brazen you are about it, the risk of having a pass pulled is a pia to deal with.

It's always easier to ask forgiveness than permission