Slides?

Scotty

How close are we to Slides with a Avy gear?

Figure you might have had a peek at them recently?

Thought I saw patrol last weekend coming from slide out....

They'd be open this weekend if it wasn't for ESG!  would not be surprised if they open Monday before that shit show that is blowing in Tuesday/Wednesday hits us....

I saw patrol go in them on Sunday.  About 1 pm

that looks killer! Good for you guys! Git some!

ScottyJack wrote

How long did it take for you to get up from this fall?  It put you flat-out sideways on the hill.  

Anyone think the weird/cryptic snow report from 2:00 today, indicating "80 or 87 trails tomorrow" is some kind of indication the Slides will be open???

Anyone planning on hitting up WF tomorrow?

The Slides looked very icy from the Summit chair.  Upper Mac should be open tomorrow and maybe Upper Cloud and Empire.

they have to look less icy than they did earlier in the week

Remember you are skiing on an ice waterfall. I don't think they are for you yet Sno



And that was on one of the best days I've ever had in there.

I wasn't there earlier in the week.  I'm sure it's skiable by very experienced skiers, but whether patrol would open it remains the question.  Maybe it'll be ready after this storm.

From seeing your's and Glade's pics when he was there that day, I think I'd be fine on the more open lines on a day when it's open Gold status.  I would not attempt the tighter ones.

I was happy to get to ski the Slides with my son yesterday.  After I saw patrol set a sluff off over one of the cliffs I doubted it would open.  My son crashed in Avy debree field from that incidentally he wrong thought he could plow thru it.  I plan to buy him a new set of Avy gear for Christmas

I missed the photo shot in the air but got the landing and the turns after it






I noticed today on Sno's FB page he posted some photos from his first trip into the Slides yesterday.  In one of the photos of Slide 1 conincidentaly there is a little kid wedge turning so I asked Sno about it.  The parent carried the kids skis and the kid walked in.  Huge no no that a parent let a kid that can't side step walk in there.  I can't believe patrol allowed that.  The whole point of the side stepping is to make sure people are strong enough skiers.



That parent committed child abuse in my mind.  This is not something a little that can't ski well should be.  

This makes me even more strongly opposed to having the Slides open without Avy gear.  Are you guys as outraged by this as I am?

I was talking to the guys up top before they opened yesterday.  They are getting a lot of push back from customers (and management?) pissed about Silver status, and that's not even from idiot parents like the one that took a non-sidestepping, wedge-turning tyke in there.  A few more Gold incidents like that including a preventable injury, coupled with pushback and negative feedback regarding Silver status....it would be just as easy, and safer, for them to shut things down completely.  I don't think that will happen, but people honestly don't respect the terrain, and that could just ruin things for some.

I am shocked that patrol let that situation happen, but it was probably easier to say "go ahead" than to deal with an irrational, irate parent....and then let the suits deal with the litigation later if things go wrong?  Such stupid people.  Worst of all, they obviously made it out alive and will encourage other stupid, irresponsible parents and kids to do more stupid and irresponsible things.

The mini wet-slabs and sloughing in there was a point of interest for Mike and I, just to observe how the snow was behaving.  Untracked lines in Slide 4 on opening easily got the slope to react, releasing the top 6-8 inches of new snow, 15 feet wide, running for maybe 25 feet until it hit the next stand of trees below.




That's a couple hundred cubic feet of heavy, wet, moving snow that would easily take out the legs of a weak child like that.

Z- great you got in there with your son.  On parenting I try not to judge other people's conduct, but the decision to take a wedge skier in there sounds beyond a reasonable range of decision making.  

That sounds like a bonehead move on that dad's part but I don't know about child abuse. We all have to make decisions for our selves and our own kids.

Honestly I understand the argument against the avy gear requirement as well. Any spoiled kid with access to daddy's credit card can buy a transceiver whereas there are lots of great skiers around who don't own the gear. I always wondered why they don't just do avy control like they do out west, declare them all triple diamonds, put a bunch of skull and crossbones warnings on the signage etc...  

I don't get to Whiteface enough to actually have a dog in this fight, never been there when they opened the slides up to the unwashed masses and, if I was, would probably hold back unless I was with a local that knew his/her way around. Just my general observations

Outrage might be a little extreme.

I know that I have sure learned a lot from making stupid and foolish decisions. If the kid wanted to do it and wasn't forced kicking and screaming then who cares? If it ended well and that kid enjoyed the experience then so what?

Life is filled with what if's and unknowns.

this is probably a repeat but I love this quote "You go into the back country with a hand full of luck and hopefully, you gain a hand full of knowledge before that luck runs out." By someone.

Anyways, I've gotten my kid in a little over her head but she figures it out and usually comes out better from the experience. As long as there is some decent, soft and carve-able snow in there it's not what I would call "death terrain".  At least not from where I'm sitting but like Brownski I don't have a dog in this fight either, I've never skied there.

For the record, I don't take my kid into stuff where a slip or fall would likely result in a possible serious injury or worse or in any place I think there is potential for an avalanche.

that little kid will be skiing circles around us in no time. i have dragged my kids in places they probably should not have been. my mistake. the only issue is the dad should not be leading the charge. if the kid falls or his ski comes off, doubt he can get it back on by himself at that pitch.

I get the whole exposing your kids to stuff thing, and we all push our boundaries....it's part of what makes life worth living, to an extent.  On top of that, everybody's risk tolerance is different, so what people will do is going to run the gamut.  That said, sometimes just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do something.  Skiing Slide 1 in a wedge may seem like a cool learning opportunity at the top, where it's wide open.  Then it leads to this at the ice falls....



Being on that without the ability to either stomp it or to sidestep/sideslip?  Bad idea.  You can go left of the ice at the bottom of Slide 1, but you have to be able to link quick turns down steep sections maybe 10ft wide, sections where a snowplow might work with strong legs and good control, but it would be tough.  Cutting left to the bottom of Slide 2 isn't that much more attractive....

The risks are real in there, even though smart and conservative route finding can mitigate the risk.  However, that's no place for a pizza-wedger.  Hey, and it's all about French fries nowadays anyway!

Another thing is.... given my beliefs in personal responsibility I'd have no qualms about dad taking his kids in that kind of stuff in the backcountry.  However, he's doing in a resort, and now it becomes a matter of resort responsibility and not personal responsibility.  That's not all that cool, especially because the first thing he might do when his kid gets hurt is sue, after his ass gets rescued.  

Chances are that, if the dad knows the terrain (we don't know he did), he'll get the kid down safe 9 times out of 10.  That said, for a young kid it's not hard to fuck up a growth plate with the wrong break, so I don't think it's worth the risk of bringing anyone in who isn't a strong skier.

The parent if you look at the photo is in the back seat as well so they don't belong in there themselves.  He didn't have a tail gunner so why the hell is he downhill by 100 Vert from the kid.  Slide one was by far a more difficult route compared to 2b yesterday so clearly they didn't know the route of have the knowledge to know it was or wasn't safe.
What would happen if the kid fell?
Could the kid self arrest if he fell in the wrong place?  The Slides are no place to learn these skills.  This was kid endangerment in my book.  These conditions were pretty sketchy for the Slides to be open without Avy gear because they were in fact wet slabs going off due to ski interaction.  

The other issue is I think parents taking a wedge turner on any black like Mt run or Skyward is doing their kids future skiing potential a great disservice.  In a wedge steep pitches only make the kid move further into the backseat and make a bigger wedge.  See my blog posts about how to develop kids into rippers and this is decidely not the way to do it.  My own kid I would not take him on blacks until he was making parallel turns.  He was 4 when that happened but had over 75 ski days by that point.  He didn't ski the Slides until he was 8 or 9 and was ripping at that point.

http://nyskiblog.com/skiing-with-kids/

We saw skiers at both Brighton and Snowbird last week with infants/toddlers in backpacks, the one at 'bird in some steeper terrain.  I wouldn't do it but to each his own.


..now back to our regularly scheduled program