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Snowmaking in an El Niño season

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Ethan Snow

Re: Snowmaking in an El Niño season

Ratniks don't necessarially make more snow. HKD towers can make just as much or more. as Snoloco said. At marginal temps, Ratniks run incredibly inefficiently, and actually don't make much snow. If you want to guarantee no profit on Christmas break, make all your snow with Ratniks. If I was the governor of NY I would seriously ban those things. Actually, they are the only way Killington can get open in October, because they make snow At 39 degrees. So, I would probably make a law saying they can't be used after November 15th. Any dumb ass can put two pipes together and make snow. It's just simple but stupid.

Fans on the other hand are a great way to get a lot of snow down. WF has an automated system on the main trail that starts up automatically when it hits 32 degrees. So that is why the fan guns were used a lot. It's low-e technology in a large package.

I'll take boilerplate ice over wet snow any day

snoloco

Re: Snowmaking in an El Niño season

The ratnik tower guns are actually pretty good in terms of efficiency and aren't very loud. It's because of the increased hang time. The HKD towers that Hunter uses can actually be run with no air in extreme cold temps. If you're there a day after they used them the previous night, there's gonna be some huge snowmaking whales.

I've lived in New York my entire life.

raisingarizona

Re: Snowmaking in an El Niño season

You guys are young enough that you should be talking about moving somewhere where it regularly snows enough so those things aren't necessary!

ml242

Re: Snowmaking in an El Niño season

informative article about snowmaking:

http://freshiesmag.com/2016/03/01/the-guns-of-salvation/

snoloco

Re: Snowmaking in an El Niño season

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by Ethan Snow

Ethan Snow wrote

Actually, they are the only way Killington can get open in October, because they make snow At 39 degrees. So, I would probably make a law saying they can't be used after November 15th.

If you run any snow gun at wet bulb 39 degrees, you'll make r*in, which would be counterproductive. Normally speaking, you need the wet bulb to be 27 or below to make snow. The wet bulb is always lower than the air temperature.

Mount Snow said something about the production levels of their fan guns. There are 5 water flow levels on their Super PoleCat models.

Base flow is 25 gpm, which will make snow at wet bulb 28.

40 gpm gets you production snow at 25 and man-made powder at 20

60 gpm gets you production snow at 20

90 gpm gets you production snow at 18

Full flow is 120 gpm and is only used at 15 or below.

I've lived in New York my entire life.

Brownski

Re: Snowmaking in an El Niño season

This jives with my memory but it was a long time ago. When I was a snowmaker there was only one fan gun on the whole mountain and the manufacturers rep had to beg the dept supervisors to get them to turn it on. In general though, the higher volume as temps drop is about right. Ethan is right that they can make snow at higher temps under the right conditions. Yes it is snot at those temps but it is acceptable for laying down a base. I don't remember doing much of anything above freezing but it's not completely impossible if the wet bulb is low enough.

"You want your skis? Go get 'em!" -W. Miller

Harvey

Re: Snowmaking in an El Niño season

Administrator

This post was updated on .

I saw Gore making snow above 35 degrees this year and asked Mike Pratt about it:

"The ground is cold and frozen, and 'it' will freeze on contact it's a closed trail and we need to open terrain. Efficiency is out the window this season."

"You just need to go at that shit wide open, hang on, and own it." —Camp

Brownski

Re: Snowmaking in an El Niño season

Right. This year has been a bloodbath, snowmaking wise. I remember in the room next to the control room, they had a big photocopied contour map on the wall (a new one each day) with all the buildings, roads and trails on it. They drew a snow plan on it every day, so the supervisors could see where and when they were supposed to turn the guns on and off etc... At the end of each shift you had to report "maxed on plan" which meant you got done what they'd asked for, "maxed on air" meant you ran out of air compressor capacity or "maxed on water" which was really just as good as making the plan cause that meant it was cold as hell and you made absolutely as much snow as you possibly could. They only maxed on water a couple of times when I was there. They were on a power schedule so you actually might have to pull back to conserve electricity too but I didn't run into that much because I worked the overnight. With no lifts running and all the lights off, we usually had plenty of electric available.

"You want your skis? Go get 'em!" -W. Miller

Adk Jeff

Re: Snowmaking in an El Niño season

Great insight Brownski. Always cool to hear from someone with firsthand experience.

snoloco

Re: Snowmaking in an El Niño season

This post was updated on .

Windham and Mountain Creek made snow last night. Very surprised Mountain Creek did as it will be very warm (almost 70) next week and r*in. Maybe it'll allow them to last one more weekend than they might've originally.

I've lived in New York my entire life.

PeeTex

Re: Snowmaking in an El Niño season

Does anyone know which areas are using Snowmax to help make more snow?

Don't ski the trees, ski the spaces between the trees.

snoloco

Re: Snowmaking in an El Niño season

The places I listed don't use it.

I've lived in New York my entire life.

snoloco

Re: Snowmaking in an El Niño season

Hunter's end of season letter. Couldn't have said it any better myself.

Hunter Mountain wrote

We can’t always rely on Mother Nature for ideal skiing and riding conditions; this is something we all experienced during the 2015-16 Season. What we also learned (well, what we always knew) is that we can always, without a doubt, rely on our snowmaking and grooming teams. The 2015-2016 Season saw a mere 11 inches of natural snowfall and temperatures well above average. Snowmaking efforts were constrained, but as most of you observed, once temperatures dropped – even if for a single night – our snowmaking team was out in full-force covering as much terrain as possible, even through the end of February. When rain and warm temperatures lingered for a bit too long, our grooming team stepped up to the plate and worked their skills moving snow at just the right time, leaving it be when it was too warm or wet, and maintaining it through the last weekend in March.

While this season was far from what we had all hoped for, we made it work – not only because of our grooming and snowmaking teams as well as our entire Hunter Mountain staff, but because of our guests, both new and returning. We thank you emphatically for spending your season, even if only for a day or two, at Hunter Mountain. Although your skiing and riding options were limited this season, your decision to choose us as your winter get-away is what makes us smile and continue to put our best foot forward.

I've lived in New York my entire life.

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