Star Wars (the Spoiler Discussion Thread)

Ok, there was the anticipatory Star Wars discussion thread, with lots of interesting thoughts and speculations.  This thread....well, run away if you haven't seen the movie yet and don't want it spoiled for you!  If you've seen it, let's talk details!

If we don't need a separate thread to isolate the spoilers just merge them....

I'll start with the first observation, something I've seen both criticized and applauded.

The Force Awakens......A New Hope 2.0?

The parallels are not only undeniable, they are obvious.  Rey is Luke.  The plot line from the get go....from mysterious guy/girl on desert planet pulled into an adventure of universe saving and self discovery, complete with cantinas, mentors who are struck down by black mask wearing heavy breathers, to the destruction of a Death Star/Death Planet.....the plots are very, VERY familiar.

But is this a bad thing?  Well, if all Disney intends to do is retell the stories of the original trilogy to a new generation using some new characters that will sell merch....and Episode VIII is just another Empire Strikes Back while Episode IX is another Return of the Jedi.....that would be an extremely disappointing thing.  It would be a cheap, easy way for Disney to exploit the franchise to make many quick bucks.  Hey, we've seen Disney sell out and make many a bad decision since Eisner unveiled his Disney Decade, which served as nothing more than a vehicle to steer Disney away from the great story telling, original content, and quality that was Walt Disney's legacy.

However, I don't think that's what we have here.  Yes, The Force Awakens is a close retelling of A New Hope, but I believe it's with a greater purpose.  As my brother said after the movie....The Force Awakens resets the tables.  Sure, while entertaining, the Prequels were nothing like the original trilogy, paling in comparison.  This first Episode in this new trilogy, I believe, is intended to put the (somewhat disappointing) Prequels in the rear view, and get back to the kind of Star Wars story telling that made the franchise great.

The Force Awakens introduced many likeable, albeit familiar, characters.  It set up some compelling, albeit familiar, conflicts.  The canvas for the next two Episodes was set up to be blank, with the ability to go in any several of many directions with compelling and likeable characters.  I'm hoping that Disney uses that as a springboard to the best two Episodes in this storied franchise.

Well, I think all the new characters are composites. Rey is not exactly Luke, Luke had some elements of that pilot guy, the pilot guy has elements of Han Solo, etc.

Agree that they did a pretty good copy of Episode 4 here, with better everything, and a great chance for a reset.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Luke is going to be: more of a mystic, like Obi Wan, or a badass fighter still? And whose daughter is Ren? Luke or Han/Leia? And who is that supreme leader guy and why does he look like an enormous monster who has been critically wounded? Han said that guy needed Khylo-Ren for his power, but his power sucks compared to Rey. So....

Still holding out hope that Luke is behind everything- the dark side, the light side, everything - he was prophesized to bring balance to the force, maybe he's killing billions of people on both sides to make a point?

mattchuck2 wrote

Well, I think all the new characters are composites. Rey is not exactly Luke, Luke had some elements of that pilot guy, the pilot guy has elements of Han Solo, etc.

Agree that they did a pretty good copy of Episode 4 here, with better everything, and a great chance for a reset.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Luke is going to be: more of a mystic, like Obi Wan, or a badass fighter still? And whose daughter is Ren? Luke or Han/Leia? And who is that supreme leader guy and why does he look like an enormous monster who has been critically wounded? Han said that guy needed Khylo-Ren for his power, but his power sucks compared to Rey. So....

Still holding out hope that Luke is behind everything- the dark side, the light side, everything - he was prophesized to bring balance to the force, maybe he's killing billions of people on both sides to make a point?

MC, the heavy reliance on the Ep 4 plot for a reboot is the main reason why I think Empire is better than 7.  There was also the reputation of the Oedipal issues from Empire among Luke/Vader with Han/Ren.  But it is splitting hairs.  Anyway you rank 'em, Episode 7 was awesome.  

PS, I also thought it was kind of funny when they pulled up the holo of the Starkiller device and they wrote into the script someone saying in effect, 'Wait, didn't we do this before?'  I think that was a little comedy for the over nine-year olds to appreciate.  

mattchuck2 wrote

Well, I think all the new characters are composites. Rey is not exactly Luke, Luke had some elements of that pilot guy, the pilot guy has elements of Han Solo, etc.

Agree that they did a pretty good copy of Episode 4 here, with better everything, and a great chance for a reset.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Luke is going to be: more of a mystic, like Obi Wan, or a badass fighter still? And whose daughter is Ren? Luke or Han/Leia? And who is that supreme leader guy and why does he look like an enormous monster who has been critically wounded? Han said that guy needed Khylo-Ren for his power, but his power sucks compared to Rey. So....

Still holding out hope that Luke is behind everything- the dark side, the light side, everything - he was prophesized to bring balance to the force, maybe he's killing billions of people on both sides to make a point?

Ren is Rey's brother, Luke stashed the twins to save her from being used by the dark side. I told coach in the other thread that they were the grandkids, I was hoping for supreme leader jar jar though.

I could go on and on about what made this movie good and bad. Here's the best part:

Carrie Fisher's life kind of went down the tubes after SW. I think it took a lot of guts for her to straighten out and dry out in general, and to do this movie she had to be on point and lose a lot of weight, etc. Watching her get a second chance across from Harrison Ford probably brought the most feels out for me. I hope she can kick some ass as a General since she probably won't get too much opportunity to be flashing blasters raiding First Order ships.

DomB wrote

PS, I also thought it was kind of funny when they pulled up the holo of the Starkiller device and they wrote into the script someone saying in effect, 'Wait, didn't we do this before?'  I think that was a little comedy for the over nine-year olds to appreciate.

Best thing about this movie was the humor. The prequels were the least funny movies I've ever seen, so to be laughing with old characters in the new film felt so right on.

Thanks, JJ.

^Lots of that kind of comedy. Loved that shit. C-3PO saying people wouldn't recognize him because of his red arm (in the middle of the Han/Leia reunion) was hilarious.

Saw it today, thought it was terrible.  Cheesy, unoriginal, and the old crew didn't really have any parts per sae.  Chewy still killed it, always does

I think Rey is Not a Skywalker.  She is Obi Wans grand daughter.  British acsent and all.  Obi Wan stashed her on that planet just like Luke was which ties in the other parallels to New Hope.

Personally I thought the ending was Epic and I can't wait for the rest episode.  Luke is going to be Yoda or Obi Wan like to Rey.

My son just out-nerded me. He's listened to some pretty good rants from me over the years; your normal anti-Lucas Han-shot-first no-continuity-from-one-movie-to-next kinds of things. We were driving home and he said "where did she get Luke's light saber from?" I told him I don't know. It seems like it's a pretty small Galaxy. "No, that light saber fell when Darth Vader cut off his hand. Luke landed on top of the millennium falcon so the light saber should have fallen into the gas planet."  I've got to say I think he's right. Luke had a completely different light saber in Return of the Jedi. He had to make his own after Empire Strikes Back right? Is this JJ Abrams' first big continuity blunder?

So why did Rey need to bring that light saber to Luke he could have just made a new one?  My guess is it was symbolic that the light side of the force had awakened and Rey needs to be trained in the ways of the force.  Luke was doing his hermit thing like Yoda before but now will be obligated to train her.

Just as Yoda told Luke about his father so will Luke tell Rey about her heritage at the start of the next film.

I was really disappointed with this movie.  How many damn death stars can you blow up?
It seemed rushed at points, trying  to reboot characters and other times it just dragged on and on.
I really enjoyed 4-6 , minus the ewoks. 1-3 held your interest because you wanted to see how
your favorite characters came to be.

I am hopping this was just a clumsy reboot and they move forward with some kick ass movies.