V-Dub

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/news/a27556/vw-will-announce-its-diesel-investigation-results-on-thursday/

This will be very interesting to watch unfold.

I wonder how deep this will go.

campgottagopee wrote

This will be very interesting to watch unfold.

I wonder how deep this will go.

TWSS! TWSS!  twice SST!  

ScottyJack wrote

campgottagopee wrote

This will be very interesting to watch unfold.

I wonder how deep this will go.

TWSS! TWSS!  twice SST!  

I agree..
By the way I rented a Golf TDI in france..One of the best cars I have ever driven..

I still think it's all horse shit..A dozen Ford F350 Diesels but out more emissions then all of the VW combined.

I owned a diesel rabbit as a winter rat one year when I owned my corvette. I was very happy the day I sold both of them.

I'm most curious to see who was on the take. There was another article stating how current VW's can't even pass 10 year old emission laws in India. I'm certainly not up to date on India's emission laws but I also can't imagine they're all that strict compared to ours.  

You think what is horse shit?  Crimes like this should be punishable with jail time.  

I get that a crime was committed, but the other auto makers aren't exactly innocent either..All the majors put out big diesel pickup's that belch thick black smoke with impunity...

India has a big pair of balls to complain about emissions , when most of the population still shits in the street..

That's my rant...This warm weather is driving everyone nuts..
Peace and Love

We just applied for VW's guilt money... They're giving us $500 in dealer credit - for whatever, a $500 Visa card, and a couple years roadside assistance.  Nice.  Note: we love our 2012 Golf TDI, it's paid for and it earns its keep with every fuel efficient mile. As for VW getting caught doing its trickery,  well BFD.  They all are guilty of working around the rules.  VW was just unlucky to get caught.  We'll continue to drive our diesel with clear consciences.  1 diesel semi spews more particulates per mile than a few dozen TDI's.  Maybe it's the engineer in me, but I sort of admire VW's technological savvy.   image="smiley_good.gif"/>

well that pretty much sums it up...  as long as it positively affects my bottom line who cares if its immoral, criminal, unethical....

Trump!  Make America Great Again!!  

Just wait till we cross your border, crush your tiny army and take all your damn fresh water!  Oh, you will care then but it will be too late...

ScottyJack wrote

well that pretty much sums it up...  as long as it positively affects my bottom line who cares if its immoral, criminal, unethical....

Actually this was not the case at all.  The odd thing is to us 'insiders' no one can see why VW did it.  The benefit they were making only comes in the real world.  On the EPA driving cycles where they test emissions, they had to activate the low efficiency code.

I always thought it was strange in the magazines that when they'd test the VW diesels they'd get far higher real world numbers than the window stickers.  That usually isn't the case unless you purposely try to hyper-mile the car.  I recall one car and driver test in particular with the Jetta TDI where every car in the test was 5% less or so than the stated fuel economy but the VW was like 10% over.

You know the only people to really benefit from this were the drivers of the cars.

One may argue that they didn't have to use exhaust aftertreatment and sold the cars a bit cheaper BUT again I'll point to the numbers which everyone goes by, the drive cycle numbers.  Those show up on every window sticker and are what are used to sell the cars.  Maybe word of mouth was good enough.  Or maybe they are actually good cars and they didn't give a flying fuck about the drive cycle tests.

Who knows, but we've all been speculating how this went down...

Telemark Dave wrote

We just applied for VW's guilt money... They're giving us $500 in dealer credit - for whatever, a $500 Visa card, and a couple years roadside assistance.  Nice.  Note: we love our 2012 Golf TDI, it's paid for and it earns its keep with every fuel efficient mile. As for VW getting caught doing its trickery,  well BFD.  They all are guilty of working around the rules.  VW was just unlucky to get caught.  We'll continue to drive our diesel with clear consciences.  1 diesel semi spews more particulates per mile than a few dozen TDI's.  Maybe it's the engineer in me, but I sort of admire VW's technological savvy.   image="smiley_good.gif"/>

Partially not true....

Subaru was trying for years to bring diesel to the US but never could meet our emission standards to make it cost effective. VW cheated for years. They need to be penalized. GD cheating friggin Germans  

campgottagopee wrote

Partially not true....

Subaru was trying for years to bring diesel to the US but never could meet our emission standards to make it cost effective. VW cheated for years. They need to be penalized. GD cheating friggin Germans

Technically not true.  The cars meet our emissions.  They drive and function and could be driven with that cal no problem.  They simply would not have had the real world fuel economy benefit should have stayed in that test cal mode.

Diesels can meet our emissions without aftertreatment and can be made cost effective in this country (if you think a Diesel vehicle is cost effective.)  I have some pretty complicated calculations that show it takes quite a few years to even break even on buying a Diesel over the similarly equipped gasoline model in this country.  And I didn't account for the added maintenance.  There's also a lot of uncertainty what fuel prices will be but a lot of it came down depreciation and the fact that Diesel VWs seem to depreciate less than gasoline models.

It will all trace back to the psycho VW ex chairman Ferdinand Piëch. He wanted a certain cost at a certain selling price.

For sale 2000 Toyota Avalon engine with 103k, burns clean, ready for transplant into any VW diesel. Slight modifications required. Note: 1970 bug in background not diesel (no shit).  Cash and carry.

MikeK wrote

 I have some pretty complicated calculations that show it takes quite a few years to even break even on buying a Diesel over the similarly equipped gasoline model in this country.  And I didn't account for the added maintenance.  

I have some very simple calculations that show the same thing - they math is not hard.

PeeTex wrote

MikeK wrote

 I have some pretty complicated calculations that show it takes quite a few years to even break even on buying a Diesel over the similarly equipped gasoline model in this country.  And I didn't account for the added maintenance.  

I have some very simple calculations that show the same thing - they math is not hard.

Yeah the math isn't hard, finding the proper data, and using the right factors is.  I used a lot of previous empirical data to model depreciation.  You could make some assumptions to simplify and come up with some very similar results... I did at first, but it was so close I kept looking for something to push it one way or the other.

Depreciation is tricky though.  To the average consumer this whole VW scandal might hurt resale value on Diesels when in fact there is nothing wrong with them and there will likely be no way to enforce the violation.  I suspect most owners will just drive the vehicles as is even if VW strongly recommends you have them reflashed.

You'll come up with the same thing for hybrids.  It usually works out it's at least 3 years, if not 5 years to break even on a new vehicle like that over a conventional one.  Oddly enough you wind up doing the same calculations the financial people did to set the price of the vehicle when fuel costs x amount.  That's a moving target too.

All this become moot though for the 2025 CAFE standards.  If your fleet can't meet that, pay the price.  Still we are moving too slow... way too slow.

MikeK wrote

 

You'll come up with the same thing for hybrids.  It usually works out it's at least 3 years, if not 5 years to break even on a new vehicle like that over a conventional one.  Oddly enough you wind up doing the same calculations the financial people did to set the price of the vehicle when fuel costs x amount.  That's a moving target too.
 

You never ever break even on a new vehicle. Every one of them is a loser.

campgottagopee wrote

MikeK wrote

 

You'll come up with the same thing for hybrids.  It usually works out it's at least 3 years, if not 5 years to break even on a new vehicle like that over a conventional one.  Oddly enough you wind up doing the same calculations the financial people did to set the price of the vehicle when fuel costs x amount.  That's a moving target too.
 

You never ever break even on a new vehicle. Every one of them is a loser.

True - I meant relative to another vehicle.

And so it begins

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/news/a27809/volkswagen-diesel-scandal-could-lead-to-48-billion-in-fines/

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/volkswagen-executive-pleads-guilty-in-emissions-scandal/ar-AApqfgg?li=AA4ZnC&ocid=ientp