Vail buys Okemo, Sunapee, Crested Butte

Found a comment in one article about the Triple Peaks sale that Vail brought up the idea in November 2017.  Adding Okemo, Sunapee, and CB to the Epic Pass was announced in the spring.  Clearly there has been thinking going on around Vail offices for a while.

Gotta agree with Benny. The Epic Pass turns 10 this year and it has changed the entire industry. Its easy to take potshots at Vail as an "Evil Empire" but the company sounds like a great place to work. ORDA could certainly incorporate some of their ideas about employee fun and customer service.

Interesting article about the CEO and corporate culture:

https://www.mensjournal.com/features/king-of-the-hill-how-vail-resorts-conquered-the-ski-industry-w469851/

The sale doesn't break my heart, as I never cared for Tim and Diane Mueller. They had massive egos, with their faces plastered on billboards and advertisements. They walked into Crested Butte with the same bravado, and it did not go over well with the locals, which is why they struggled in the beginning with that acquisition.

Rj1972 wrote

The sale doesn't break my heart, as I never cared for Tim and Diane Mueller. They had massive egos, with their faces plastered on billboards and advertisements. They walked into Crested Butte with the same bravado, and it did not go over well with the locals, which is why they struggled in the beginning with that acquisition.

From what I've been reading, Tim Mueller wanted badly to own and/or operate a big resort in Colorado.  But CB was his third choice after Steamboat and Winter Park.  Clearly his plans didn't work out. I saw that the last new lift at CB was in 2005.  A lot more has been done in terms of major improvements since Okemo was brought up from the brink by the Muellers in the 1980s.  Different time, different region.

At least Vail management knows the Colorado ski industry well.  Not the same as New England in lots of ways.

In 2007, Colorado skiers were complaining about multi-resort season passes from Vail (CO only, pre-Epic) and Intrawest (Rocky Mountain Super Pass) that were around $400.  Those passes are what CB could not compete against in that era.

marznc wrote

 A lot more has been done in terms of major improvements since Okemo was brought up from the brink by the Muellers in the 1980s.  Different time, different region.

If memory serves me, the Muellers' bought Okemo way back when for around $600K or so, and truly did a nice job turning it around.

Benny Profane wrote

Btw, how's Sunapee? Never been.

It's ass.

riverc0il wrote

Benny Profane wrote

Btw, how's Sunapee? Never been.

It's ass.

I've never heard a ski resort described in such an artful way before.     I've never been to sunapee, but I think I'd give some credence to riverc0il's opinion.  

riverc0il wrote

Benny Profane wrote

Btw, how's Sunapee? Never been.

It's ass.

In a good way?

mm

The Okemo deal got me looking at the Epic pass again.  Four days at Stowe, Crested Butte, A-Basin and Breck for $450 might work for me.  Stowe is what really sells it for me. I love Stowe, but for $100 I'm not going.  The same with A-Basin.
It's not about cheap skiing for me. It's all about pre-paying so I get my lazy butt out of the house.

mm

Milo Maltbie wrote

The Okemo deal got me looking at the Epic pass again.  Four days at Stowe, Crested Butte, A-Basin and Breck for $450 might work for me.  Stowe is what really sells it for me. I love Stowe, but for $100 I'm not going.  The same with A-Basin.
It's not about cheap skiing for me. It's all about pre-paying so I get my lazy butt out of the house.

pre-paying . . . that's what Vail wants as many people as possible to do.  Adding more locations within a few hours of lots of people who like to ski/board at some level beyond a couple weekends or an annual 1-week ski vacation presumably means more Epic passes will be sold.  For some resorts, that could mean more people on the slopes but not necessarily.  Snow conditions will still be the bigger factor.  In a bad snow year, people will head to the locations with the best snow possible.  So having a pass that covers multiple regions is good for the passholders too.

Only reason I checked out Sugarbush or Stowe in recent years was because they were on the MCP.  I only had a few days to ski in the northeast so the multi-resort pass influenced my choice of route.  Having more options in the northeast for the Epic pass certainly could make a difference in my decision process for a multi-resort pass in the future.

I used to like Stowe but it's just too far from NYC.  And if I'm going to get on a plan I'm going out west.

marznc wrote

Rj1972 wrote

The sale doesn't break my heart, as I never cared for Tim and Diane Mueller. They had massive egos, with their faces plastered on billboards and advertisements. They walked into Crested Butte with the same bravado, and it did not go over well with the locals, which is why they struggled in the beginning with that acquisition.

From what I've been reading, Tim Mueller wanted badly to own and/or operate a big resort in Colorado.  But CB was his third choice after Steamboat and Winter Park.  Clearly his plans didn't work out. I saw that the last new lift at CB was in 2005.  A lot more has been done in terms of major improvements since Okemo was brought up from the brink by the Muellers in the 1980s.  Different time, different region.

At least Vail management knows the Colorado ski industry well.  Not the same as New England in lots of ways.

In 2007, Colorado skiers were complaining about multi-resort season passes from Vail (CO only, pre-Epic) and Intrawest (Rocky Mountain Super Pass) that were around $400.  Those passes are what CB could not compete against in that era.

I just scratched my head when they did that. CB used to be almost fatally flawed as a potential mass market ski resort because of two factors. First, hard to get to, compared to Summit, Vail, and SLC  among others, and a real lack of intermediate skiing. Still the same, after all this time. Great town, incredible when it snows, but really, an expert hill you had to really work to get to, in this era of five day ski weeks. But, something changed recently that must have made Vail take notice. Last time I was there was a few years ago for three days, Thursday - Sat. Sat. was surprisingly crowded. I pointed this out to a ski patrolman I rode up with one time, and he said, yeah, the front range crowd has been driving there a lot lately (Colorado Springs, mostly), because, hey, if you're going to be stuck in hours of I70 traffic to the Vail hills, why not drive three hours to CB? Made sense. So, you know the Denver/CS skiers are rejoicing over this one. That's their core market.

Taos is only 3.5 from Denver burbs. Would make a nice addition. Close to CB too.

Benny Profane wrote

Taos is only 3.5 from Denver burbs. Would make a nice addition. Close to CB too.

No, no, no . . . I just started going to Taos a couple years ago.  Leave it alone!  Besides TSV got the money it needed from a long time fan in Louis Bacon.  A LOT of major capital projects have happened since he made the purchase in Dec 2013.  TSV is evolving just fine with a little help from the MCP.

What I wonder about is Telluride.  Supposedly not for sale, just doing the Epic Pass connection.  But . . .

Benny Profane wrote

. . . CB used to be almost fatally flawed as a potential mass market ski resort because of two factors. First, hard to get to, compared to Summit, Vail, and SLC  among others, and a real lack of intermediate skiing. Still the same, after all this time. Great town, incredible when it snows, but really, an expert hill you had to really work to get to, in this era of five week ski weeks. But, something changed recently that must have made Vail take notice. Last time I was there was a few years ago for three days, Thursday - Sat. Sat. was surprisingly crowded. I pointed this out to a ski patrolman I rode up with one time, and he said, yeah, the front range crowd has been driving there a lot lately (Colorado Springs, mostly), because, hey, if you're going to be stuck in hours of I70 traffic to the Vail hills, why not drive three hours to CB? Made sense. So, you know the Denver/CS skiers are rejoicing over this one. That's their core market.

I wonder whether Vail wanted Okemo and Sunapee more than CB, or vice-versa?  Or was the combination a win-win?  East coast metropolitan market plus another reason for front range folks to stick with the Epic over Ikon.

My ski buddy who lives in Albuquerque likes CB a lot more than Telluride.

This is super interesting to me. 3 Hours? What's the route?

Either way, I'd rather go to CB over anything I-70 corridor every time. Crested Butte is the jam man.

riverc0il wrote

Benny Profane wrote

Btw, how's Sunapee? Never been.

It's ass.

Well, I am the Assman, so, sounds perfect.

Around 25% of all US ski resorts are now corporate/state owned.  

I'll stick with the little guys next year.

 

marznc wrote

I wonder whether Vail wanted Okemo and Sunapee more than CB, or vice-versa?  Or was the combination a win-win?  East coast metropolitan market plus another reason for front range folks to stick with the Epic over Ikon.

My ski buddy who lives in Albuquerque likes CB a lot more than Telluride.

A-Basin and CB makes Epic a decent Front Range product for me. I'm gonna talk to my son in Denver who has been doing RMSP, which sank with Max Pass which was the best pass ever.  If he does Epic, I'm in because I'll get Stowe tickets essentially for free. If he goes Ikon, I'm buying day tickets out West.    

I've had 7 ORDA passes, 2 Max passes and a Sugarbush pass.  I've been in the money on maybe 2 or 3 of them, but it's not really about the money. I always get an ORDA pass because I don't want to be tempted to stay home on marginal days, but I would rather not be limited to where I ski out west just to save less than $200 on lift tickets.  YMMV.

mm

Saratogahalfday wrote

Around 25% of all US ski resorts are now corporate/state owned.  

I'll stick with the little guys next year.

Have you looked at OkemoIsEpic.com yet?  So far, has gone from Magic to MRG to Smuggs over the last three days.  I'll be watching to see if Berkshire East gets included.

https://www.madriverglen.com/epic/

marznc wrote

https://www.madriverglen.com/epic/

I used to work for Sports Illustrated. Eleven years. They, as most literate sports fans know, got steamrolled by ESPN. It was painful to watch, because they had this incredible brand they just sat on with that attitude. We're unique. We're the best. Our experience is like no other. Have you seen S.I. lately? It's pathetic, with no TV presence at all. Looks like a comic book with no ads. It's for sale, if you have the cash. Probably die in about ten years, and nobody will care.

Betch the guy who wrote that is at least in his sixties, and the average age of the MRG faithful is close. Bad demographics.