When should snowmaking stop for good?

Was up at Hunter on March 14, recovered ok from the recent R, everything skiable, but the night before was very cold, I didn't expect them to make snow, and they didn't, but St. Pat's is coming which is a big weekend in the Cats, I  will put it out to the troops, all things considered when should snowmaking be stopped for good. Are there any Eastern resorts that make snow past March 1?

JP wrote

Was up at Hunter on March 14, recovered ok from the recent R, everything skiable, but the night before was very cold, I didn't expect them to make snow, and they didn't, but St. Pat's is coming which is a big weekend in the Cats, I  will put it out to the troops, all things considered when should snowmaking be stopped for good. Are there any Eastern resorts that make snow past March 1?

Some huge percentage (60, 70% ?) of total EC ski area revenue comes from the three major holiday periods, Christmas, MLK and Presidents Week. That is just DURING those holidays. By the time Presidents is over most or all of the money has been made.  

The goal for many mountains after the end of Presidents week is to minimize losses, and not piss off passholders too badly.

Snowmaking is a huge expense, and probably the largest VARIABLE expense. In addition the way electricity is priced - the cost for each KWH of electricity purchased in a single month is determined by the PEAK demand for that month. So if you blow for one day after the February meter is read, then ALL of your March electricity will be more expensive.

Very few mountains blow after the final weekend of Presidents week.  Jay Peak did it last year (or maybe it was the year before or was it Sunday River?) This was (IMO) primary a marketing decision, not operations.

A high ranking guy at a well known East Coast mountain once said to me, off the record:

"The best thing that can happen for us financially is big time snow through March 25 and then 4 days of pouring hot rain after that date. Being open in April really hurts us, but if the snow is there, we have to do it."

They were making snow at Sugarloaf last night!   They just earned more points in my book!  I've always wanted to get over there and if they keep this up it might happen for me this season.

http://www.sugarloaf.com/TheMountain/DailyReport/index.html

I think gore has blown in march. But if the mountain has enough base, there is really no need. Some spot snowmaking sure would be nice, but like Harv said, it's got to be tough to justify.

Tom

Snowhunter wrote

They were making snow at Sugarloaf last night!   They just earned more points in my book!  I've always wanted to get over there and if they keep this up it might happen for me this season.

http://www.sugarloaf.com/TheMountain/DailyReport/index.html

Reggae fest is coming up... That was always a good time in college.

Harvey44 wrote

A high ranking guy at a well known East Coast mountain once said to me, off the record:

"The best thing that can happen for us financially is big time snow through March 25 and then 4 days of pouring hot rain after that date. Being open in April really hurts us, but if the snow is there, we have to do it."

Thanks for the trade secret. Doesn't surprise me. I am going to save that for all of the season pass whiners who complain that the new owners of Killington don't keep the lift spinning until Memorial day so that they can ski mud bumps and then go out and tailgate in the parking lot, not even spending a little in the cafeteria or bar.

I think my knee will be OK for skiing around April 1. Nice timing. Another reason to move to Denver.

Snowhunter wrote

They were making snow at Sugarloaf last night!   They just earned more points in my book!  I've always wanted to get over there and if they keep this up it might happen for me this season.

http://www.sugarloaf.com/TheMountain/DailyReport/index.html

Do it, you won't be disappointed. I made the long haul to the Loaf for the first time a couple Springs ago, when they were all that was open, that's the incentive I needed to travel that far to ski. This year I was there just before "Nemo" hit, it was awesome, best day of the year for me by far, 15" and all the Massholes were stranded at home with threats of fines and jail time if they were caught on the roads. It was a zoo on Sunday, but I enjoyed rubbing everyone's face in how awesome it was the day before. My second time there the back side was open on April 29th, it was surreal.

Harvey44 wrote

 the way electricity is priced - the cost for each KWH of electricity purchased in a single month is determined by the PEAK demand for that month. So if you blow for one day after the February meter is read, then ALL of your March electricity will be more expensive.

Really?  I never knew this.  It seems odd, why dont they attempt to lock in a price or hedge energy like numerous other industries do?

I was talking to Greek Peaks snowmaking supervisor during the third week of February after they had just blown for 70 hours straight. He told me their cost to run is $800/Hr.  At that rate it's got to be tough to justify making snow this late in the season...

Hunter told me that when they are blowing at full tilt, the cost is $13,000/hr.  That's a lot of lift tickets.

BenedictGomez wrote

...why dont they attempt to lock in a price or hedge energy like numerous other industries do?

They do. Or at least ORDA does.  Not sure about other organizations, but it seems that most probably would.  That doesn't preclude demand pricing.

Mike (Gore) told me that at times you'll see (hear, smell!) lifts running on diesel. It doesn't always indicate a mechanical issue with the electric motor. Sometimes it's electric demand management.

13K though it maybe that's for full tilt boogie, anyway at 13 grand per I can understand why they stop, too bad, does anyone have any suggestions on how to cheapen snowmaking? How bout a tracked vehicle with a water carrier that pumps out snow like a slurpie maker??/ just musing , but maybe some investing in wind generated electricity, something, Eastern weather is so damn  unpredictable, great snow last Thursday/Friday 3/7-8, big big rain 3/11-12

Well you could always try the Titus steal the power thing.  Sort of a robinhood steal from the rich to bring snow to the skiers

Coach Z wrote

Well you could always try the Titus steal the power thing.  Sort of a robinhood steal from the rich to bring snow to the skiers

So... like Belleayre?

I kid, I kid.

Gore was setting up guns yesterday and blew snow last night.  Mostly on sunway around saddle, but first time I have ever seen them blow snow in March.

Lies is lit up tonight!!! And we've had 6-8" of fresh pow this evening so come and get it tomorrow all you weekend warriors

At the beginning of Pres week I was told that they had 10 more snow making days in the budget. Looks like they have been using them wisely. I think Mike wants to keep the dream alive well into April, he is pretty cagey,

 Real Good for Gore, guess that socialized skiing paid off.

For ORDA mountains the snowmaking budget is determined to some extent by skier visits. IMO what's paying off is the dump at Christmas, and some decent holiday skiing this year. I wouldn't be surprised if a few ski NY areas will post record visits this season.

Harvey44 wrote

For ORDA mountains the snowmaking budget is determined to some extent by skier visits. IMO what's paying off is the dump at Christmas, and some decent holiday skiing this year. I wouldn't be surprised if a few ski NY areas will post record visits this season.

Gore already has had several record days this seasons. We will see what the 2013/14 budget brings, one thing we know of is that Santa may have a new lift in his sleigh for this year,

I've always figured the end of Gore snowmaking for the year was largely controlled by the onset of maple season (SnowMaker1 being a syrup tycoon). This year has proven  me wrong though...Mark's boiling sap while the boys are blowing pow up top. Way to go Gore!