Where to move a skiing family in NY?

Goreskimom wrote

 one of the "gold" towns with great schools  

What's a gold town GSM ?

About 10-15 years ago Vermont revised their tax structure to tax second homeowners in towns that they called "gold" towns.  Places like Stratton and Stowe had much higher taxes for second homeowners.  The flipside is that these towns often have good schools.  I know Stowe does.

I'm torn on this one.  In an ideal world I'd have a place in Wilmington or Keene.  But I'm also partial to the Mad River Valley.  

Just for some perspective, it is a massive culture shock going from urban or suburban to rural. It is not as easy an adjustment as one might think. You might think "I love the outdoors, I love roughing, I hate the city, I hate the traffic, I love going to remote mountainous regions" etc. But just visiting and living there are two different things.

The biggest culture shock is social. You guys with kids could likely more easily socially integrate. That is shared experience and a social environment the draws people together. But having lived in two different towns in the mountains, you quickly discover that you are the outsider socially... not a lot of folks do outdoors stuff up here. Almost as much complaining about the cold and snow. Almost. So you think you're moving into an active outdoors community because of the perceptions you bring, but really it is WORSE than urban areas where so much of the population is into "getting away" and doing those outdoors things. Ironically, urban areas bread a love of the outdoors.

I think this is why Burlington, VT is such a self contained city (give or take a few miles in each direction). You just don't see sprawl happening further down I-89. You go from cow country to suburban to urban very quickly. People can have their cake and eat it too in Burlington. Immediate neighboring towns get some over flow. But it is very limited. You get your outdoor access, urban mentality, and social connections because so many other like minded people move there. But then... it has become a victim of its own success. Not sure I would ever want to live there due to the traffic.

Glens Falls and Queensbury are very ideal places from a skiers perspective. An hour to Gore, hour and a half to Killington, Magic, etc, two hours to Whiteface, MRG. Three hours to Stowe. Hickory is right there. Its the gateway to the Dacks and you have the Lake, plenty of stuff to do, etc. Right off an Interstate. If I was a NY skier and wanted to keep focused on NY but get out of the city, I'd definitely target that area.

Peter Minde wrote

I'm torn on this one.  In an ideal world I'd have a place in Wilmington or Keene.  But I'm also partial to the Mad River Valley.

Peter - I agree that you need to consider the social integration aspect in your choice of where to live.  I do really like Burlington but it is a city so if you want the country life that is not it.  I live in Jay and have been here for 6 years full time and 5 years part time before that.  We had our son go to preschool in Keene and I can tell you that moving to Keene from the outside and being socially accepted is difficult.  Its a very very small town with usually less than 15 kids in a graduating HS class.  We have interacted with Keene folks and they are not very accepting of what they consider oursiders.  My brother had lived in the Mad River Valley in VT and found the same thing maybe even more so.  VT outside of Burlington is a small closed society.

I'd suggest Jay or Wilmington would be more welcoming.  LP is nice but very costly.  If you want more of a bigger town consider Peru or even Plattsburgh.  If you have kids and want them to play many sports Wimington is not a good choice as the kids go to LP and they don't have a strong sports program in LP schools - there is no football and other sports are more limited.   Saranac Lake could also be a good choice as its has a nice town but its not too big and it has the college to add some culture.  The HS is big and has a strong sports program.  it also has its own town ski hill.  I don't personally have experience with SL on the social integration aspect though.

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Also, don't forget access to broadband when choosing a location. Get out into the country a little bit, and you'll step back fifteen years to a dial up connection, which I know I couldn't stand.

Wilmington.  But in the Lake Placid school district side.  Ausable Valley School district taxes are retarded!

70's Gore - deciding where to live based on your preference for Target vs Walmart is decidedly non Hardcore

ScottyJack wrote

Wilmington.  But in the Lake Placid school district side.  Ausable Valley School district taxes are retarded!

That would depend if you have school age kids.  Ausable schools have small class sizes and schools that are being modernized.  Many folks i know from LP send their kids to North Country starting in 3rd grade due to the larger class sizes and Northwoods for HS. Ausable Valley is more blue collar than LP but we consistently vote for better schools for our kids.  LP has a much bigger tax base but also has to pay into Orda where Jay does not.  Going to LP every day thru the notch on a bus is a short ride either.

Also has a much bigger non winter sport program in the school including football and a very big baseball program.  I like that my son is playing 3 sports every year (football, Nysef alpine, baseball).

I don't get the importance of sports.. I would want my HS to have a great AP program, good computers and great teachers..Sports should be a second thought.
Raise a Geek not a Athlete..

JasonWx wrote

I don't get the importance of sports.. I would want my HS to have a great AP program, good computers and great teachers..Sports should be a second thought.
Raise a Geek not a Athlete..

HS sports are the closest thing to a job and the real world in the high school. My son takes all honors or AP classes and he spends all day with other kids like him. The 3 teams he plays on have kids from all levels of classes and a coach who may or may not play you for no good reason. This is the real world - not an AP class of welll behaved high acheivers with a super motivated teacher.

The added attraction for me is that he is busy every day after school and gets to work out for 2 hours. Idle hands and free time are not a good mix for HS boys.

You make some good points..My kids play HS sport too. I just hate it when people but sports ahead of education..

+1 - agree wit all you said x10003

my son is an only child so the social aspect of getting along with his teammates and working toward a team goal is also very important

to relate this back to the gist of this thead if you don't care about sports then keene would be great for you because they don't have enough kids in a class to field a team in any sport

in a school that small classes are really small but teacher have to teach subjects outside their expertice and the kids are not exposed to a any cultural diversity.  when those kids go to college the size and scope of the student body becomes a huge distraction to them since they were so isolated

ausable skier wrote

to relate this back to the gist of this thead if you don't care about sports then keene would be great for you because they don't have enough kids in a class to field a team in any sport

in a school that small classes are really small but teacher have to teach subjects outside their expertice and the kids are not exposed to a any cultural diversity.  when those kids go to college the size and scope of the student body becomes a huge distraction to them since they were so isolated

This. When you're in a town with 12 kids/graduating class, generally the teachers aren't so great.

the science teacher maybe really good at say physics but in a school this small they also have to teach earth sci, biology, and maybe math too

I say we all just adjourn to Aussie's house....once it snows.

Got beer and pizza Aus ?

Snowballs wrote

I say we all just adjourn to Aussie's house....once it snows.

Got beer and pizza Aus ?

plenty of beer - i have a kegerator - the ultimate man app

the pizza here is Jay is only so so

I have been following this thread with much interest.  My wife and I have this same discussion at least once a week.  She is from western NJ and I went to college on LI.  We both said we would never live in metro NY and well - never say never.  We live in a nice town with a train station and a nice downtown.  We are walkable to parks and restaurants, shops, etc.  BUT there is a constant LUME in the sky at night from the city so you never see stars.  There is a certain vibe, pulse or whatever you want to call it that I am quite certain elevates the blood pressure an average of at least 10 points.  There are just so many people always in a hurry here that sometimes you get caught up in it a find yourself tailgating or honking or whatever and all of a sudden you realize you are acting like an a-hole.  We know a bunch of people in town, but not many have the same outdoor interests that we do.  We have our "escape from NJ" plan in place and are working on executing.  Assuming that the real estate market doesn't pin us down we look to make the move in the next couple of years.  

All that said, my vote is for Saratoga and here are my reasons:
1. Lots of stuff to do around town that is very accesible including live music, good eats, etc.  More stuff to do than there should be for a town this size.
2. The track season is fun.  You either love it or hate it.  I am sure it is different living with it, but I have lived in quite a few tourist towns and I think we would embrace it.
3. Commutable to Albany if you need to.  Not the best commute, but not terrible either (compared to NY metro).  Don't think I would want to be another 20 minutes further up the northway though.
4. Still close enough to NYC by train or car.  This one is important if you are taking a job with you that allows you to work remote and still have to go to the office every so often.
5. Saratoga Lake is right there.  Love the lake in the spring, summer, fall and it is very accessible.
6. Proximity to Gore, WF, West and VT
7. Lots of golf close by that is cheap and not crowded (again compared to NJ).
8. Good schools and the feel of true community

I know Saratoga is expensive, but if we are going to make the move we don't want to comprimise.  We have lived all over the country and we both know what we want.  I also don't want to move again for a very long time.  We also checked out Burlington as a serious contender.  Spent a couple of weeks up there and although we loved the area it feels much more isolated.  It is another 2 to 2 1/2 hours north.  The job opportunities up there don't seem to be as plentiful and the shoulder seasons and summer seem to be more depressing for some reason.

The biggest thing I would say is stop talking about it and make a plan.  Spend some time checking out the area.  For summ vacation we rented a house in Saratoga last July for a week just to get a feel for it.  We did the same the year before in Burlington.  Once you figure out where you want to be put the steps to get there on paper and execute.  We have been talking for years but finally put our plan together this year.  It is a little terrifying but also great because we know we are working towards the day when we will put NJ in the rearview for good.

It is all relative.  My wife and I kept trying to find a way to move further north of Queensbury to get away from the hussle and bussle of a suburban area, but in the end, with a mortgage almost paid off and a great life, decided to stay put.  

Danzilla wrote

3. Commutable to Albany if you need to.  Not the best commute, but not terrible either (compared to NY metro).  Don't think I would want to be another 20 minutes further up the northway though.

I Forgot to mention that the traffic around Albany is the lightest I have ever encountered around a fairly large city anywhere. I have cruised through there many a time during rush hours, and stop and go jams are very rare.

4. Still close enough to NYC by train or car.  This one is important if you are taking a job with you that allows you to work remote and still have to go to the office every so often.

One nice little feature about Saratoga is that you are equidistant to NYC, Boston, and Montreal using interstate highways. (give or take a half hour or so). Three cool cities.

5. Saratoga Lake is right there.  Love the lake in the spring, summer, fall and it is very accessible.

It's OK, but, quite crowded in the summer. So much so, that on hot, windless August days, it emits a certain, eh, aroma I wouldn't want to be around (a lot of vacation homes, eh, empty into that thing). I'd trailer a boat up to northern Lake George, Brandt lake, or, even better, Schroon lake