jay peak 2-23/24

just spent the weekend at jay after 30 inch dump on thursday. sorry, no pics, too busy skiing and driving. but i have a few observations. i've been skiing jay for about 10 years, especially prez's week when my boys were younger. i've never seen the mountain so crowded. it was already skied out by saturday and remember, the lifts were on wind hold thru th. i guestimate about 75% canadian on sat. this is quite a change from 10 yrs ago when about 20% of crowd appeared to be border crossers.

i think this shows the tremendous marketing to the montreal market. also, rode the lifts with quite a few newbies from far reaching places like mid atlantic states who had heard the hype about jay. and the parking lots for skiers doing the Dip or Big Jay looked like a commuter lot. back-country sking was never so crowded. the new base village was rocking.

but, this new found crowd is too large for jay IMHO. It doesn't have the acreage to accommodate so many skiers. unlike western areas who routinely have 1000+ front-side acres, jay is much smaller. the end result is huntah like slopes and skied out glades. i hate to open a wound about snowboarders but, there has been an increase in boarders. in fact, jay is promoting boarders thru a new burton program. jay, like MRG, has lots of narrow, sinewy,rocky terrain which requires a lot of snow to cover. a boarder can easily wipe the goods from this terrain making it almost unskiable. if you look at the drop-ins off alligator alley, you'll see scraped entrances and then nascar style banked turns all from boards. i saw plenty of boarders scraping away sensitive and favorite areas. intermediate skiers are more intimidated by these steep entrances and don't attempt to enter and scrape. we've all seen novice boarders scrape down rumor.

if you don't ski glades, i think jay is a waste of time. their trails are narrow and windswept leaving the eastern snow-making granite. the sides of trails are built up snow granite curbs about knee high which leaves no emergency escape. the difference between whiteface and jay is that the wind actually blows the snow into the woods. i have never figured out where the wind blows the snow at whiteface.

to leave on a high note, sunday was great. the jay cloud dropped another 6-8 inches over night and the wind did its usual grooming and the holiday crowds were gone. skied onto every lift all day without a wait. it skied like the old jay..powder..powder..powder. curious what jay regulars think about these observations.

Was up that way the previous weekend. Drove by the Big Jay and Dip parking late afternoon. I couldn't believe how crowded both were.There must have been 25 cars at the BJ parking. There were poeple hanging out all over the side of the road.  BJ must have been a bump run

Pretty reasonable observations, given the on-line hype about the "big dump" combined with the fact that it was a holiday. Solution? Don't go to Jay during a holiday week.

I agree with you about the mountain capacity. 15 years ago, we were complaining that Jay didn't have the lodge & accommodation infrastructure to accommodate the skiers. Now it is the other way around, and the lifts and trails can't keep up. More people should take up curling and waterparking. Oh, yeah, and backcountry skiing.

Oh man. Please tell me it's not a holiday week on march 10. This will be my 3rd time to Jay for a short vacation. Every one was a blast. I love that mountain and I don't even know were to go. Hint hint. I'm a glass more full kind of guy so I'm looking forward to some fun and they did get snow today so let the good times roll.

frk... hope its ok that I added some "air space" into your post.  I really wanted to read it and for me it was the only way.

Lots of good info here.  

Let's face it, Jay wants those people there. It's a business and it sounds like the big time risk is paying off for investors.

I find it hard to believe that my own intermediate skiing at Mad River or Jay wouldn't add to the bumped out trees. Man I hope the snowboarders can let some of your comments go. I know you mean them earnestly, but you are right - it's a sore subject.

NEXT: ml and I skied with VT-Freeheel — a TGR maggot — at Sugarbush last weekend. He was constantly looking for "flat snow." Basically heavily skied trees are bumped, and unskied, or lightly skied trees have flat snow.  He just didn't want to ski bumps in the trees.

My POV as a Gore guy... we're often skiing on bumps in the trees.  They are better than trail bumps because they get less traffic and the snow is all or mostly natural.  Sure I like flat snow, but I don't see it regularly.  Maybe for a guy living north of Albany, you drive to Jay for flat snow.  But often I'm driving to Gore for bump trees.

I'll take bump trees or flat snow any day.

Harv  I agree totally. I've never skied flat snow as a Gore skier. All I can say is Jay has some nice glades and if you catch it right its sweet. It is a business after all and they suckered me in for two years in a row. Jay Rocks.  

there is a difference between snowboard bumps and ski bumps. ski bumps ski better for skiers. BTW, harv, nice try but you're no intermediate. maybe the west bowl will alleviate some of the congestion at jay. jay was empty for years, even on holidays, that's why is was so startling to see the crowds. also, this highlights one of gore's strong points, that is, its ability to handle large crowds. When cars are parked the length of the access road, other than the gondola, the lift lines are short and skier traffic sparse if you are willing to move around the mountain. raymo, there are no secrets at jay. the goods are everywhere.

frk wrote

 
...if you don't ski glades, i think jay is a waste of time. their trails are narrow and windswept leaving the eastern snow-making granite. the sides of trails are built up snow granite curbs about knee high which leaves no emergency escape.

With the benefit of considerable hindsight, I have to disagree with this. Yes, the wind is a constant companion and some areas get a little scrapey BUT there are some great trails at Jay. I wonder where you saw the "built up snow granite curbs about knee high" - I can't recall ever experiencing this phenomena (maybe on The Vermonter, I will give you that). And narrow? Did you ski the Haines? Too wide. JFK: Perfect width. Derrick Hot Shot? Perfectly narrow and twisty. Can-Am? A blasphemously wide scar on the mountain but a blast to ski on the right day. The Vermonter on a good day? It doesn't get much better. Exhibition when it has been groomed? Turn on the turbo boost. Want something a little spicy? Green Beret, Upper River Quai, Kitzbuhel, UN, Powerline (quick, before they build a lift there!). I could go on.

Runs to avoid on busy and/or windswept days? Upper Goat (AKA Cluster%&#$ - take Alligator Alley instead); Angel's Wiggle (hard to avoid as it is a major connector); bottom section of the Northway (after Hell's Crossing); Vermonter on a bad day. Jay does have kind of a weird layout and I can see how people who don't ski there often could get a bit frustrated &/or confused.

Pro-tip for Raymo:

I like to make up interesting combinations of trails that take advantage of the terrain. Some of these I have given names, like Whole Milk and Goat-Goat-Goat. A couple of examples: want a nice easy but fun & fast cruiser from the top of the Freezer to the waterpark? Try Goat - Lower Quai - Interstate, or for more speed, Goat - GMB - Racer - Harmony Lane (and don't forget to run the "gates" of the snow guns near the end). Tram summit to Stateside leg burner? Do "Whole Milk" - Vermonter - Green Beret - Upper Milk - Lower Milk - end of Powerline. Flyer to Stateside? Goat - Goat - Goat - The Boulevard. Half the time I don't even know the name of the run I am on. Just go with the flow.

Keep these fundamental guidelines in mind (click here if you can't read the fine print):