$147 Million Proposed for ORDA Upgrades

MC2 5678F589 wrote

campgottagopee wrote

I hope you win MC

I'll plow the parking lots early AM

Writing you down for: plow guy/sidecountry snowmobile shuttler

Hold on now.

I'll have a new knee by the time you get the place up and running. I'm not going to be the plow guy, I'll be the plow guy from 4 AM until an hour before opening bell. And I'm not shuttling anyone on a sled. When I'm done with my shift I will be either: A in line for first chair, or B ripping my sled around with whoever I want to ride with.

Also don't plan on me at all during deer season. Not even a little bit even  even a little bit. In the summer I might be more available but that will have to be on a week to week basis.

Deal?

No like buttons, so....

Don’t forget that if it was part of Orda Tupper would have all the green and blue skiers staying in LP as a market

WF sorely lacks good lower level terrain and Tupper could supply that as an alternative on the same multi day ticket or seasons pass
Build a huge park there and the rats will come too

And X if you don’t think Orda put Tupper out of business you are delusional

Harvey, I think Johnny is demonstrating a new feature that is needed in the forums.

Z wrote

Don’t forget that if it was part of Orda Tupper would have all the green and blue skiers staying in LP as a market

Yeah, nothing like a 50 minute drive for a couple of double chairs to start your day.

Z wrote

WF sorely lacks good lower level terrain and Tupper could supply that as an alternative on the same multi day ticket or seasons pass
Build a huge park there and the rats will come too

You mean like Gore?

Z wrote

And X if you don’t think Orda put Tupper out of business you are delusional

Says the guy who thought Big Tupper had a 1650 foot vertical. Maybe you should have skied it before it closed for good.

Sorry Z....but from this impartial observers perspective you aren’t winning this one.

Drive 3x as far for a third (WF) or half (LWF) the vertical and “25” shorter trails, all for the exhilarating rush of skiing...Big Tupper?

Not for blue skiers.  There’s enough interesting terrain for intermediates at WF, and they get to ride a gondola and ski an Olympic mountain.

Heck, while WF is more limited for green skiers.....beginners are less likely to seek out a little extra terrain with a significantly longer drive time.  

It seems your nostalgia or need to argue has you headed down a fruitless path, even for a hypothetical argument!

JTG4eva! wrote

Drive 3x as far for a third (WF) or half (LWF) the vertical and “25” shorter trails, all for the exhilarating rush of skiing...Big Tupper?

Not for blue skiers.  There’s enough interesting terrain for intermediates at WF, and they get to ride a gondola and ski an Olympic mountain.

Heck, while WF is more limited for green skiers.....beginners are less likely to seek out a little extra terrain with a significantly longer drive time.  

Doesn't make any difference to me . . . but have a question.  Are you thinking about green/blue skiers who would be driving >2 hours to get to LP?  What about locals?  If Big Tupper had cheap season passes, say under $400, and catered to families, would there be enough people interested?

There are small hills in ME and NH that have figured out how to survive as a business serving locals and some folks driving a few hours from the Boston area.  There is plenty of competition from destination resorts and mid-size ski areas in the same region.

From DC, there are folks willing to drive longer to get to a ski area that's not as crowded when the group includes beginners.  Usually parents with kids, so cost of lift tickets is another factor.

marznc wrote

JTG4eva! wrote

Drive 3x as far for a third (WF) or half (LWF) the vertical and “25” shorter trails, all for the exhilarating rush of skiing...Big Tupper?

Not for blue skiers.  There’s enough interesting terrain for intermediates at WF, and they get to ride a gondola and ski an Olympic mountain.

Heck, while WF is more limited for green skiers.....beginners are less likely to seek out a little extra terrain with a significantly longer drive time.  

Doesn't make any difference to me . . . but have a question.  Are you thinking about green/blue skiers who would be driving >2 hours to get to LP?  What about locals?  If Big Tupper had cheap season passes, say under $400, and catered to families, would there be enough people interested?

I’ll grant you, I have a destination skiers mindframe.  That said, didn’t Tupper already fail at being the cheap local family alternative?  And Z  seems to advocate for Tupper as part of ORDA, moving to a Ski4 kind of pass?  Would that be cheaper?  

I still think local Placid area skiers would rather WF, but I could be wrong.  I probably am.

https://skiing.substack.com/p/what-costs-29-million-and-rises-204?

Remember that more and more LP locals are now living in Saranac Lake because the STRs are forcing them out.  Tupper is only 20 mins from SL and if a local is taking his kids skiing it’s a lot closer than WF

I’d also add night skiing to Tupper so you could have that as an additional draw and have night trading and high school races there.

It would be better for Orda to spend $10m fixing and adding Tupper than some of the Govs stupid non skiing spending he has proposed

10 million is not need for Tupper.  Just lifts repaired and a lot of new/used snow making equipment.  And yes, one brand new groomer (don't skimp money on a used groomer).

SnowBound wrote

10 million is not need for Tupper.  Just lifts repaired and a lot of new/used snow making equipment.  And yes, one brand new groomer (don't skimp money on a used groomer).

Agree Snowbound, you could get the place up and running for less than $10M but the main chair would have to be replaced, there is no way it could be repaired. The snowmaking pipe is still on the hill and could be repaired. The lodge is basically gutted right now and also could easily be repaired and brought back to usable status quite quickly. Trails would need some serious clearing though which would be labor intensive. Chair 2 & 3 would need some work but chair 2 actually passed NYS inspection in the fall of 2018 so it is usable. The ski patrol building was totally rebuilt within the last couple years, courtesy of an "investor" who thought he was paying for GC Lots but his money was being diverted for other uses, unbeknownst to him.

So MC, you don't need to hit a giant lottery win, $10-20M should do it and leave you plenty to live life large.

endoftheline wrote

.
So MC, you don't need to hit a giant lottery win, $10-20M should do it and leave you plenty to live life large.

Yeah, the Powerball is now at $394 million (cash value $275 million). Figure I lose half to taxes, that's still $138 million or so. Sink $18 million into a renovation similar to what you describe, I still have $120 million left. That $120 million makes  $6,000,000 a year (at a conservative 5%). I could survive on that.

marznc wrote

  What about locals?  If Big Tupper had cheap season passes, say under $400, and catered to families, would there be enough people interested?

Yeah, this is the play. Cheap season passes ($400 might be too much. I'm thinking $300, and $200 for college kids from Potsdam/SLU). Then like $50 day tickets and cheap food/beer in the bar to keep people around and partying.

It'd be nice to have a summer mountain bike scene & occasional concerts like Platty does, too.

MC2 5678F589 wrote

marznc wrote

  What about locals?  If Big Tupper had cheap season passes, say under $400, and catered to families, would there be enough people interested?

Yeah, this is the play. Cheap season passes ($400 might be too much. I'm thinking $300, and $200 for college kids from Potsdam/SLU). Then like $50 day tickets and cheap food/beer in the bar to keep people around and partying.

It'd be nice to have a summer mountain bike scene & occasional concerts like Platty does, too.

Made me think of Catamount.  They have a Sun-Fri pass for about $400 when bought early and unrestricted for about $500.  Bonus is that the pass is also good at Berkshire East for a little variety.  Day tickets are $45 M-F and $72 on weekends, with a 4-hour option for slightly less.  Youth prices are for ages 7-17.

My impression is that summer revenue is not optional, but required to make business survival possible.  Also helps that at least some 12-month jobs exist.  I know of Mnut ski patrollers who are mountain bike instructors or patrollers during the "green season."

Berkshire East turns into Thunder Mt bike park..I wouldn't be surprised in a few years their summer business surpasses the winter business..
They just built  the biggest jump line / trail in the US...

JasonWx wrote

Berkshire East turns into Thunder Mt bike park..I wouldn't be surprised in a few years their summer business surpasses the winter business..
They just built  the biggest jump line / trail in the US...

Summer has always been busier at Massanutten than winter since I started going there 15 years ago.  It opened in the early 1970s.  During the first 20 years, the ski slopes and after a while snow tubing was the primary draw to bring in people from DC.  The water park is both indoor and outdoor during the warm months.  It's a timeshare resort.  I can get a unit anytime during the winter, even on relatively short notice for a holiday period.  For a summer week, need to plan at least 6 months in advance, if not a year for the better units.

Lift-served mountain biking at Massanutten is relative new, maybe 5-6 years.  But the entire back of the ridge has been criss-crossed with bike trails for 15-20 years I think.  The resort owns the land and works together with a local bike shop and bike club.

marznc wrote

Made me think of Catamount.  They have a Sun-Fri pass for about $400 when bought early and unrestricted for about $500.  Bonus is that the pass is also good at Berkshire East for a little variety.  Day tickets are $45 M-F and $72 on weekends, with a 4-hour option for slightly less.  Youth prices are for ages 7-17.

Catamount is probably the closest 1000' vertical hill to my home. Once my oldest daughter graduated from the local (40 min) feeder hill, i started getting season passes at Catamount. Back then, 12-15 years ago, an adult full season pass was $199 if purchased the spring before. A great value and vibe, although weekend crowds on the old Meadows triple chair, which serviced the mellower terrain suitable for my kids whobwere still quite young combined with lunch time lodge crowding became atrocious for me.  However that was before the installation of the Promenade Triple chair and the new/enlarged baselodge. I would think those additions would have helped lf not alleviated those issues.

Z wrote

 

And X if you don’t think Orda put Tupper out of business you are delusional

Z, the owner of Long Lake Diner & Owl's Head Pub in Long Lake completely agrees with you. He also mentioned that his business has taken a noticeable hit since Big Tupper closed.

Since big Tupper closed long lakes population has dropped 20 plus percent, don't know but that seems like it would have an effect. Big Tupper was going out whether orda came about or not IMO  

Yep

They only thing going extinct in the Dacks is people who actually live there and are making a living.