$147 Million Proposed for ORDA Upgrades

From Bellaire Friday January 22 2020 Facebook page this morning
They make it seems like it snow in last few 3 days to me when u call conditions packed powder
And they said it yesterday to
Anyone opinion much appreciated
"Ropes have fallen on upper Yahoo yesterday and we do expect the ropes to be falling on lower yahoo later on this morning.  We are serving up some sweet packed powder conditions and carving up 29 trails."

Benny Profane wrote

Upstate NY would be Vermont without downstate dollars. Much more dirt roads, certainly no state run ski hills.

I read in the NYT that Vermont actually does very well in terms of Federal Dollars.  They take in much more then they pay out due to being a small state with a small population, and two US senators.  I'm not going to look for that article or verify anything I'm saying, but I believe that is the case.  

Benny Profane wrote

Upstate NY would be Vermont without downstate dollars. Much more dirt roads, certainly no state run ski hills.

Vermont would be Alabama without downstate NY (& Boston) dollars, too.

Also, NY State owns like 20 Golf Courses and 100 beaches. And there's people here in a ski forum complaining about them owning 3 ski areas?

Amazing.

x10003q wrote

endoftheline wrote

Z, Spot on. Although I think $10M would be plenty to get it back easily.  I think that the low cost non holiday pass that WF started offering in the late 90s had more effect on Big Tupper than the Gondis.
In addition to Clarkson and SLU, throw in Paul Smiths with their food service etc, seems like Big Tupper would be a perfect fit for them.

Yeah, they already tried this. BT went BANKRUPT in 1992. It has zero to do with WF. It has everything to do with location, non-compelling skiing, 650 foot vertical, and 90" of natural snow per year.

After you flush $10 million, what is your plan to keep it operating? Where is the money going to come from? There will never be enough visits to support the place.

The closure in 92 with the Hot Dog King of Atlantic City has nothing to due with the closing by the owners in 1999.

MC2 5678F589 wrote

Benny Profane wrote

Upstate NY would be Vermont without downstate dollars. Much more dirt roads, certainly no state run ski hills.

Vermont would be Alabama without downstate NY (& Boston) dollars, too.

Also, NY State owns like 20 Golf Courses and 100 beaches. And there's people here in a ski forum complaining about them owning 3 ski areas?

Amazing.

i don't see anyone complaining about ownership, rather the distribution of funds. I'd also venture a guess that those golf courses and beaches are more in the way of self sustaining.

Apparently Google doesn't want their ad on a page where bad words appear.


D'bag alert

ScottySkis1 wrote

From Bellaire Friday January 22 2020 Facebook page this morning
They make it seems like it snow in last few 3 days to me when u call conditions packed powder
And they said it yesterday to
Anyone opinion much appreciated
"Ropes have fallen on upper Yahoo yesterday and we do expect the ropes to be falling on lower yahoo later on this morning.  We are serving up some sweet packed powder conditions and carving up 29 trails."

IMO the meaning of "packed powder" has evolved to include good cold manmade.

I getya Scotty, it ain't right.

I don't get what that's saying.

X
not sure what you have against Tupper
if memory serves from the top it has around 1650 vert
it might have gone bankrupt in 92 but contined to operate until 1999 when the gondis and the cheap WF / Gore pass put it under for good.  The town ran it breifely as a much smaller 650 foot hill which is what you keep mentiioning but its is much bigger from the top.  The state and Orda killed Tupper and they should get it back on its feet.  Its a much better fit for Orda than Bell.
i know the guy that was the ski school director in 1998-99.  He came over the WF the next season which was also my first there at WF

Harvey wrote

ScottySkis1 wrote

From Bellaire Friday January 22 2020 Facebook page this morning
They make it seems like it snow in last few 3 days to me when u call conditions packed powder
And they said it yesterday to
Anyone opinion much appreciated
"Ropes have fallen on upper Yahoo yesterday and we do expect the ropes to be falling on lower yahoo later on this morning.  We are serving up some sweet packed powder conditions and carving up 29 trails."

IMO the meaning of "packed powder" has evolved to include good cold manmade.

I getya Scotty, it ain't right.

Haha, I just had this awkward discussion on TGR. That isn't powder in any form.

TheGreatAbyss wrote

Benny Profane wrote

Upstate NY would be Vermont without downstate dollars. Much more dirt roads, certainly no state run ski hills.

I read in the NYT that Vermont actually does very well in terms of Federal Dollars.  They take in much more then they pay out due to being a small state with a small population, and two US senators.  I'm not going to look for that article or verify anything I'm saying, but I believe that is the case.

It's not federal dollars that were talking about. It's state tax revenue, and NY takes a lot, and spends like a drunken sailor in Amsterdam.

That was funny but true up above. Vermont would be Alabama without NY and Boston money. Haha.

You know what makes this whole Tupper needs support thing so absurd? I'm over at Killington now, have a pass. Now, this, it can't be argued, is probably one of the top eastern resorts in visits and I'll bet, gross revenue. Maybe #1. About as major as a major eastern hill can be. And, yet, you can buy a one bedroom condo here for about 60,000, and the choices are numerous. There are a lot of derelict motels and restaraunts scattered around the immediate area. Midweek rooms in motels are competitively dirt cheap, and actually getting cheaper. No new building or renovations besides the K1 lodge are happening. Everything is getting old and dying. In other words, the future looks bad. So, why in the world would anybody invest in Tupper, when a top mountain in Vermont that is close to two major markets is sorta dying?

Yup.

https://youtu.be/AVSjsYHX6eM

Saratogahalfday wrote

Yup.

https://youtu.be/AVSjsYHX6eM

Z wrote

X
not sure what you have against Tupper
if memory serves from the top it has around 1650 vert
it might have gone bankrupt in 92 but contined to operate until 1999 when the gondis and the cheap WF / Gore pass put it under for good.  The town ran it breifely as a much smaller 650 foot hill which is what you keep mentiioning but its is much bigger from the top.  The state and Orda killed Tupper and they should get it back on its feet.  Its a much better fit for Orda than Bell.
i know the guy that was the ski school director in 1998-99.  He came over the WF the next season which was also my first there at WF

I am just being realistic.
The actual vertical is around 1000 vert. They have claimed 1151 vert, but that is based on a USGS marker about 150 feet in elevation above the top terminal of chair 3. Chair 1 (which no longer operates), lookers left on the main face, was about 800 vertical and served a couple of interesting steep pitches (Widowmaker) that were about 4-5 turns long. Chair 2, lookers right, is about 600 vert and serves green trails and blue trails. From the top of Chair 2, you ski down the back about 150-200 vertical to the bottom of Chair 3. This chair is also about 600 vertical that brings you to the top.  There are 3 trails from the top, one is the under the chair (blue) and the other main trail is a long, flat, slightly uphill in spots trail that gets you to the top of Chair 1.

There is nothing compelling about the terrain other than it is a ski area. It is not in a snow belt. By the 1990s, there were not enough visits to operate it, even with a new snowmaking system and 3 operating chairs. The ORDA gondolas were installed in 1999 and this had ZERO to do with BT going under for a second time in the decade. NYS did not kill Big Tupper.

How are Oak Mtn (35 minutes from Gore) and McCauley Mtn (1:20 from Gore) are still operating and Big Tupper failed? Gore has the same pass structure and new Gondola in the 1990s as WF. The answer is they are closer to population areas and get better natural snow reducing the costs of snowmaking.

I have no problem with a private entity purchasing and operating BT. There is no way NYS should have anything to with operating another ski area.

Hmmm...

It takes 30 minutes longer to get to Tupper... And that's in clear weather. The roads to Tupper from Minerva are desolate and the hill is half the size.

Somebody is forgetting Gore in that comparison.

Big Tupper will be all set after I win the Powerball on Saturday.

I'll buy it for cheap, sink a few million into lift, lodge, and snowmaking upgrades, and happily lose a few hundred thousand dollars on it every year as my $100,000,000 stack of cash earns (a conservative) $5 million a year in interest.  Ooh, I'll build a bunch of awesome mountain biking trails, too.

So you are promising not to move out west or you will manage it remotely?

Will we be allowed to poach with impunity?