Adirondack Club and Resort News Stories/Marketability

In the past week there have been several articles, one in print in Adirondack Life and several on NCPR.org reagarding the Marketability of the Adriondack Club and Resort, centered around the old Big Tupper Resort. The Adirondack Life article was a kind of comparison of the Front Street and the Adirondack Club And Resort. As much as I'd like to see the ACR go for the sake of reopening Big Tupper these articles appear to be quite objective and realisic about the chances of either of these developments actually coming to fruition. The estimated selling prices especially for Tupper Lake seem hopelessly optomistic to put it mildly. For those kind of prices you can go to almost any of the largest resorts in the country and but at a fully developed resort with a major mountain with all the amenties, ie. Vail, Aspen, Whistler. Anyone else seen the articles, what do you think. The www.ncpr.org site has links to other articles that also explore the issue.

Links:

http://www.adirondacklife.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=271

http://blogs.northcountrypublicradio.org/inbox/2011/04/22/will-the-adirondack-club-and-resort-fly-financially/

http://www.adirondackexplorer.org/stories/2011/04/21/big-plans-big-doubts/

http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/news/story/17519/20110422/tupper-lake-resort-faces-deep-skepticism-in-business-community

the $500 to 750k minimum prices for townhouses at the two projects seem very high given the current real estate market unless they think their entire target market is wall street

Listen. Enough already.

I have a friend who is living in Dillon, Co., this season. I lived there in winter, '03. This season, just like the season I was there, they got three or four major dumps in April. April! He just texted me about skiing powder today on the East Wall at A Basin. Powder! on April 24! It's been snowing there on and off for a week or two. Hell, it started snowing there in October! Now why, oh why, in the 21st century, when jet travel is well established, and private jet travel has been "fractionalized", would somebody of that kind of means spend that kind of money to build or buy a mansion at ........... I'm sorry.........Big Tupper?


Have you ever skied at A Basin?

Benny, Totally agree with you. And yes I have skied the Basin many times, going back to the late 70's in the days before there was a lift on Palavachini(sp). It is an amazing place.

Benny Profane wrote

Listen. Enough already.

I have a friend who is living in Dillon, Co., this season. I lived there in winter, '03. This season, just like the season I was there, they got three or four major dumps in April. April! He just texted me about skiing powder today on the East Wall at A Basin. Powder! on April 24! It's been snowing there on and off for a week or two. Hell, it started snowing there in October! Now why, oh why, in the 21st century, when jet travel is well established, and private jet travel has been "fractionalized", would somebody of that kind of means spend that kind of money to build or buy a mansion at ........... I'm sorry.........Big Tupper?


Have you ever skied at A Basin?

Well thanks for stating the obvious...skiing is better in Co. People have there own reasons for buying property and I just don't feel like making a list of possibilities right now. Take a ride around Lake Placid sometime and you'll see hundreds of properities $500,000-$750,000 and way over.  

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

Benny Profane wrote

Listen. Enough already.

I have a friend who is living in Dillon, Co., this season. I lived there in winter, '03. This season, just like the season I was there, they got three or four major dumps in April. April! He just texted me about skiing powder today on the East Wall at A Basin. Powder! on April 24! It's been snowing there on and off for a week or two. Hell, it started snowing there in October! Now why, oh why, in the 21st century, when jet travel is well established, and private jet travel has been "fractionalized", would somebody of that kind of means spend that kind of money to build or buy a mansion at ........... I'm sorry.........Big Tupper?


Have you ever skied at A Basin?

Well thanks for stating the obvious...skiing is better in Co. People have there own reasons for buying property and I just don't feel like making a list of possibilities right now. Take a ride around Lake Placid sometime and you'll see hundreds of properities $500,000-$750,000 and way over.

Well, first, are you sure they're worth that much these days? Are you assuming a market value when upscale second homes were churning a few years ago? Do you know how difficult it is to obtain a mortgage for a second, non owner occupied home today? It's fine and dandy if some second generation middle class guy uses their little mansion in the hills to inflate their net worth by some fantasy number, but, let's see what happens when he puts it on the market. In black fly season.

But, we're talking about Lake Placid, twice home to the Olympics last century, steeped in a long tradition of winter sports, and benefitting from a very well funded and maintained sport infrastructure paid for by the NY state taxpayer. Oh, and let's not forget a very nice if icy ski hill and beautiful lake for summer activities. Now, how in the world can a fairly depressed and dismal place like Big Tupper compete with LP or many resort towns in Vermont just because someone wants to build expensive "camps" at the bottom of a barely operating and hardly challenging ski hill? It's not any closer to major metro population centers. It doesn't get more snow. At the moment, there's nothing to do, as a matter of fact, except maybe hike and canoe or sumthin'. Where, oh where, will this stupid money come from? As I said, this isn't the late 19th century, when the Adirondacks may very well have been Alaska to most Eastern city dwellers as the adventurous wealthy spent a few days struggling to get to their camps up there. Today, they can be in Aspen or Telluride in half a day of relative comfort while surfing the web or watching a crappy movie. And they don't even have to be as rich as the old ADK camp owners - that is attainable to millions in the upper middle class today.

BTW, it snowed another four inches last night at A Basin.

Benny Profane wrote

Well, first, are you sure they're worth that much these days? Are you assuming a market value when upscale second homes were churning a few years ago? Do you know how difficult it is to obtain a mortgage for a second, non owner occupied home today? It's fine and dandy if some second generation middle class guy uses their little mansion in the hills to inflate their net worth by some fantasy number, but, let's see what happens when he puts it on the market. In black fly season.

But, we're talking about Lake Placid, twice home to the Olympics last century, steeped in a long tradition of winter sports, and benefitting from a very well funded and maintained sport infrastructure paid for by the NY state taxpayer. Oh, and let's not forget a very nice if icy ski hill and beautiful lake for summer activities. Now, how in the world can a fairly depressed and dismal place like Big Tupper compete with LP or many resort towns in Vermont just because someone wants to build expensive "camps" at the bottom of a barely operating and hardly challenging ski hill? It's not any closer to major metro population centers. It doesn't get more snow. At the moment, there's nothing to do, as a matter of fact, except maybe hike and canoe or sumthin'. Where, oh where, will this stupid money come from? As I said, this isn't the late 19th century, when the Adirondacks may very well have been Alaska to most Eastern city dwellers as the adventurous wealthy spent a few days struggling to get to their camps up there. Today, they can be in Aspen or Telluride in half a day of relative comfort while surfing the web or watching a crappy movie. And they don't even have to be as rich as the old ADK camp owners - that is attainable to millions in the upper middle class today.

 You should be in politics cause what you say sounds good, but has no substance…just a lot of generalizations.  “twice home to the Olympics last century, steeped in a long tradition of winter sports, and benefitting from a very well funded and maintained sport infrastructure paid for by the NY state taxpayer”…yeah that’s going to sell a lot of high end homes. How about Lake George what traditions are they steeped in, yet a lot of  real estate is pretty high there too.

Here are some listings to the first real estate web site I went too.
http://www.adirondackestates.com/residential.html

Benny Profane wrote

BTW, it snowed another four inches last night at A Basin.

Then why aren’t you there? It couldn’t be anything like family, friends, time, career or other personal preference considerations could it? Also, not everyone wants or has the time to fly often even if they have the money. Some people like to be in driving distance.

Big Tupper development has a shot...alot of people are hoping for the sake of their community.

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

Then why aren’t you there?

Because I can't find a job in Denver or Boulder.

Good luck with that Hope thing. It got a very mediocre and owned man voted in as President a few years ago. Be careful what you Hope for.

Eh, it's so sad to hear the upstate desperation, though. I lived in Saratoga Springs from '04-'07, and heard about the great little condo development that was going to go up in North Creek back then in early '04, and I'm guessing the first proposal was  presented before that. Where is it? Always seems to be around the corner, huh? Really, if there was a market for beds at Gore, you would think they would be there, right? You know, Gore, probably the finest ski area in NY state, and, still no condos. And somebody comes along and thinks that a bunch of people are going to pay at least 500,000 grand to live in a dismal little town even further away from the populated areas south with nuthin' goin' on, and just wait for the ski area and bars and golf course to magically appear? Huh?
Reminds me of that chip factory that AMD was going to build below Saratoga that so many pinned their hopes on. Did they ever build that thing? It's all I would ever heard about when I lived there, and, all the while, I would think, why in the world would someone build a chip factory in upstate NY? But, in the end, it was all about Hope.

Benny Profane wrote

Listen. Enough already.

I have a friend who is living in Dillon, Co., this season. I lived there in winter, '03. This season, just like the season I was there, they got three or four major dumps in April. April! He just texted me about skiing powder today on the East Wall at A Basin. Powder! on April 24! It's been snowing there on and off for a week or two. Hell, it started snowing there in October! Now why, oh why, in the 21st century, when jet travel is well established, and private jet travel has been "fractionalized", would somebody of that kind of means spend that kind of money to build or buy a mansion at ........... I'm sorry.........Big Tupper?


Have you ever skied at A Basin?

I hear wat your saying, but there are people out there (i'm one of them) who can't stand traveling. I'd rather go to the dentist than play the "hurry up and wait" game in the airports, not to mention the strip search needed anymore get thru securtiy. Build it and they will come.

Benny, just to let you know, they are indeed building that chip plant, no doubt, due to large tax incentives, but building it nonetheless, with it expected to become operational in 2012.  

On an unrelated topic, I would prefer to see political discussions(i.e. the allusions to President Obama) in off topic, not ski discussions.  

Benny, why you hatin on Upstate...not cool

Oh, I'm not hatin'. If my job didn't go to India I'd still be in Saratoga. I love that town. But, it's such a tragic place up there. Time has just passed upstate by, and all the best intentions won't bring it back. Ridiculous tax incentives and expenditures might, but, don't count on that in the new age of austerity. It may sound harsh, but, many communities up there should fold up their tents and go where the jobs are. They ain't coming to them. That's what I had to do when I lost my job. Sitting around and waiting for the world to come to you can be fatal.

Benny Profane wrote

Reminds me of that chip factory that AMD was going to build below Saratoga that so many pinned their hopes on. Did they ever build that thing? It's all I would ever heard about when I lived there, and, all the while, I would think, why in the world would someone build a chip factory in upstate NY? But, in the end, it was all about Hope.

First workers to arrive in May at GlobalFoundries

http://poststar.com/news/local/article_f42d3324-7084-11e0-a49e-001cc4c03286.html

Use link below to access ongoing AC&R Hearings.  Click on Live and Upcoming Webcast event under Headlines in center of page.

http://www.apa.state.ny.us/

Previous hearings are archived in the webcast listing.

'bout time. That architect should be shot, though.

I always love when the doubters have to eat their own words!!! Global Foundries will have profound impact on Upstate.  Not every community will survive but that's just reality.  Many ADK communities will continue to decline but others will grow and thrive!  Just the way it is!  North Creek will grow!  

Benny Profane wrote

Oh, I'm not hatin'. If my job didn't go to India I'd still be in Saratoga. I love that town. But, it's such a tragic place up there. Time has just passed upstate by, and all the best intentions won't bring it back. Ridiculous tax incentives and expenditures might, but, don't count on that in the new age of austerity. It may sound harsh, but, many communities up there should fold up their tents and go where the jobs are. They ain't coming to them. That's what I had to do when I lost my job. Sitting around and waiting for the world to come to you can be fatal.

WOW, glass is half empty in your world, no???

There are plenty of jobs, just depends on what one is willing to do. I still have alot of family who live up there, guess what, no tents rolling up....just hard work. Have a cuz who's a logger, another who's a miner and yet another who owns a few retail shops.....I could go on and on.

My point being, I don't see any ADK'r "waiting for the world to come to them". I see them busting their ass, making a living, and enjpying one of the most beautiful parts of NYS.

This thread has gotten way off base. I was more interested in what eveyone(esp skiers) thought of the articles and the projected market prices for this development. Is it feasable given the prices centered around a small remote ski hill?

An excellent report that sums it up very well:
http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/news/story/17519/20110422/tupper-lake-resort-faces-deep-skepticism-in-business-community

endoftheline wrote

This thread has gotten way off base. I was more interested in what eveyone(esp skiers) thought of the articles and the projected market prices for this development. Is it feasable given the prices centered around a small remote ski hill?