Adv/Expert (Slides) Litmus Test?

I don't think anyone hit on it yet, but all of the slide routes present different levels of difficulty due to different aspects of the terrain, snow, and obstacles. So when evaluating what proficiencies are needed to tackle the slides, I think it would be helpful to examine the slides individually instead of as a whole. For example, tight tree skiing skills are needed for slide 4.

Jump turns (as MC2 describes them)... should be in an expert skiers skill set but are definitely not needed for any of the Slides. Very useful technique in ski width wide steep chutes when you can't afford to pick up speed for whatever reason (conditions, obstacles, terrain issues, etc.). When you are in a tight jam and you need a deliberate and exacting turn (but refuse to side step/slip due to personal pride), having a jump turn is a very nice tool. Especially in that ski width wide terrain with unexpectedly difficult conditions (true ski width wide, not what most skiers would consider "tight"). Not a needed skill for the Slides (Slide 4 is super cool but not an elevator shaft).

A true expert wedels it.

ml242 wrote

A true expert wedels it.

True dat with a lil pick'n 'n shart'n along the way!

This thread rules!

Skidds wrote

You're describing a jump turn, but it doesn't look like you need it in the above picture. Just go straight off and ski out to the left. What's the problem?

Slide 4 has some tight spots that aren't really considered "skiing" so much as they are considered "positioning your skis in the correct place around a bunch of inconveniently placed obstacles". That is the very definition of "picking your way down". I like how slide 4 starts, but as it narrows, it starts to become an annoying puzzle instead of a ripping ski run. That's why I prefer the first 3 slides.

Attn Noah John.  

mattchuck2 wrote

Slide 4 has some tight spots that aren't really considered "skiing" so much as they are considered "positioning your skis in the correct place around a bunch of inconveniently placed obstacles". That is the very definition of "picking your way down". I like how slide 4 starts, but as it narrows, it starts to become an annoying puzzle instead of a ripping ski run. That's why I prefer the first 3 slides.

Wow - I'm glad somebody said it. There are spots that are so technical and difficult it can take the fun out of the sport. There may be a huge sense of accomplishment and you get bragging rights in the bar, but you aren't rushing back to lap it all day.

I find most people (not all) who label themselves as expert skiers and try to judge others ability are just legions in their own minds. Unless your Bode, there are usually several people on the hill who ski better and in certain situations I'd bet there are people who ski better than Bode but who could get around the gates nearly as well. Look at your ab ility to ski the terrain you want to ski and be your own judge.

ScottyJack wrote

Attn Noah John.

Did the hermit lose internet connection???

mattchuck2 wrote

Skidds wrote

You're describing a jump turn, but it doesn't look like you need it in the above picture.

Doesn't look like, or don't?  If you've skied that line and done what you suggest, God bless you.  If you haven't, it's easy to find.  Get back to me after you ski it.  I'm sure it can be skied better than I skied it.  

Pictures from above never do justice, and the pic from below was taken from the tree line.  So, for a mere mortal who doesn't want to launch 10 plus feet to a seemingly impossible landing and hard left runout, I hope we can at least agree that the jump turn was a viable option for an easier way out.  I'd bet 99 out of 100 advanced skiers take the "cop out" on that one, which is why I believe people need to learn the jump turn.

I like 4, because you get some (relatively speaking) wide open turns, and you get to practice some route finding and more technical skill in tighter spots.

I use the PIZZA wedge whenever I need it in there.  I think what one person calls a jump turn can be different than anothers.  I think jump turns are necessary in spots when you are in the slides...but seeing as I have never took a lesson in my life I'm not sure I have the definition down.  I know when I get near the waterfalls and need to repositon i utilize what I refer to as a jump turn.  I just jump up and turn.  

Don't forget french fries either ----- pizza turns and french fry turns ----- milk hand, cookie hand

^I'll give it a try this weekend and roll the GoPro for you. Haven't used that entrance for a couple of years, but knowing the ability of some people who went in there by mistake and managed it, I'm pretty sure I'll be fine.

Would you like to see it on alpine or Tele?

^^^^ Lock the heel baby ---- Alpine!

Impress us and put on a snow board

MC, no GoPro required.  I don't know squat about free heeling, heck...I barely know a serviceable amount about alpine.  I honestly believe you'll stomp the crap outta that line compared to my feeble attempt.  I'm not trying to be an azz, although I'm sure I come off that way.  I am truly curious if that line can legitimately be taken straight down the fall line.  I think it would take a hell of a skier, which you obviously are.

I remembered Slide 4 as my favorite. But then my mind has a way of deleting the unpleasant. Maybe I remember the bottom being a pain.

Coach was right. My first time was April 2011:

http://forum.nyskiblog.com/Whiteface-NY-4-9-11-The-Slides-td2800926.html

I agree With Matt I much prefer slides 1-3

4 is not worth the extra time to get to and you spend too much time picks thru the narrow spots

Skids if jump turns (the psia term is hop turns) work for you have at them.  Earlier this year I skied with some guys from work at Alta who are advanced but not experts in my book and in their own words.  One of them liked to make these hop or jump turns.  He wore himself out by lunch each day because he was so tired from all that jumping.  We were skiing some steep and tight chutes and tree shots off supreme and he could convince himself to keep his skis on the snow.  It's something you need in your bag of tricks but its very inefficient.  

Guys don't take lessons because they can ski expert terrain well but can they do it efficiently so that they can do it all day?  That is a key difference between an advanced and expert skier in my book.

Thanks Coach.  As for advanced/expert skiers and lessons....I actually took one back in Jan.  I was solo, wanted to mix things up, and had a 2 hour private 'group' lesson with Bill at WF.  Focused on carving technique, and it was a great 2 hours.  Every old dog can learn some new tricks, especially if we've been relatively set in our ways for 25 years!

As for ju....hop turns, I only said they were a necessary tool to be used in spots.  Now I'm Mr. Hop Turn because I defended them as a useful turn in a skiers bag of tricks after Matt dismissed them as an unnecessary cop out 😛. Oh, well.  I had only said far left Blazer's was a good (steep enough) place to practice them.  No, I'm not hopping my way down every steep trail I come across.  Like that spot at Gore, if I don't want to huck then the hop turn is a viable/valuable option.   You've skied Blazer's, and you know you aren't carving over the rock on the left hand side.  So I make a hop turn to set myself up,  launch a hop turn off the rock, land downslope and ski on from there skis on snow.  Just a tool in spots, that's all.  Bell to bell last Friday at Gore.....powder, trees, steeps, bumps.....barely ever breathing heavy.  I know I'm not the highest level 10 expert, but my efficiency is doing just fine despite my occasional hop turn.

Most of the instructors can not ski bell to bell.  I think it is more a matter of conditioning than technique.

Agreed.  As good as I am (in my own mind) on skis, my ability to ski hard all day and not be tired and sore has much more to do with the fact that I play soccer a couple times a week than with my skiing technique.

It's both

You can be mr ironman and after a few hours of inefficient skiing be wiped out

Skids I'm glad you had a good experience with bill fisher.  He's very good.  It's great to take a little time to learn something new or get tuned up.  I spent 5 days back in December in a clinic working on my skiing and feel I've been skiing great this year as a result.

Something I've recently had to work on with an advanced skier is a non pure carved turn.  If you want to ski all of WF black terrain you need to add some skid to control speed tactically.  Bumps, steeps, trees are not pure race type carved turns but the tail should still follow the path of the tip and not displace.