Attn. MC2, Coach and other instructors. What do you think of this approach?

There is this fellow on TGR called Mike Pow. He is from Wales and spends his winters in Japan teaching skiing and posting a daily report, with great shots of people skiing waist deep pow under beautiful birch trees. He is also exceeding polite, thanks people for commenting on his thread and seems like a good guy. I read his report religiously, here is this year's installment:
SR-Shiribeshi-Stories-Hokkaido-2012-13

Now that you have the context, I'll get to the point. I couldn't help but notice that most of the skiers in his photos are clearly not pole planting. These people are his students, and they seem to reach from novice to expert level. So I asked him about it:

Mr. Multiglisse wrote

OK, Mike, every day I ski Japan pow vicariously through your fantastic posts but I have to ask: other than your local ski buddies, why does nobody ever seem to be planting poles in your pics?

Like this:

Mike's response was very interesting (I bolded the text for emphasis):

Mike Pow wrote

Thanks for reading and commenting Mr. Multiglisse.

I don't advocate or teach pole planting.

The style of skiing I practice and promote is about standing tall, centred and light on your skis using the pull of the mountain to accelerate in the fall line and the first part of the turn and pivotting the skis across the fall line and continuing to turn your skis back up the hill to decelerate and manage speed.

The pole plant for most skiers is a blocking action making the skier small and heavy on the snow and forcing the skier to turn at a pre-determined spot rather than where the contours of the mountain and the snow conditions feel best and safest.

Kind of a zen approach, it seems. I would be very interested to hear your comments on this.  

An interesting approach but there really are two type of pole touches - one is a blocking plant and the other aids in flow down the hill.

He advocates standing tall - I have to like that but in the photo he is balanced in the aft direction - not so good.  This is not the tall athletic stance due to his backside being well behind his feet.  Moving his hands forward would help him in this issue.

I am pretty sure that is a friend visiting him or something. Mike looks like this, but it's tough to tell in ski clothes year to year. The guy in your shot looks like he just hit a rollover or something coming to a stop as well.



Mike truly is a legend. What gets me excited most though is not the japan stuff, which is deep and treed and beautiful, but his stunning bc shots of his home hills in Wales. When they go, they look like amazing skiing. When they don't, you're still hiking in the most amazing places I've ever seen, with castles and coastline and.... sheep. Or something.

Check out his thread here, and maybe we can ask him about pole planting here. I for one do use a blocking pole plant I would say, but it recenters me if I get off and I move aggressively into the turn. Not Zen, but I do feel like I have some ability to predict the terrain and then accelerate into it when done right. A pole plant doesn't help much if it's too late, you know?

http://www.snowjapanforums.com/index.php/topic/22112-sr-wales-2012-13/page__st__20

ml242 wrote

I am pretty sure that is a friend visiting him or something. Mike looks like this, but it's tough to tell in ski clothes year to year.

The guy in the picture is Mike's current client. If you cruise through his pics you will see a lot of skiers in that odd-looking (to me) stance.

I agree with ML, Mike is a legend, a gifted photographer and truly living the dream. I sent his Wales reports to friend currently at grad school over there. My buddy has been spending a lot of time wandering the Welsh countryside wondering where the snow is. Apparently the ice climbing is going off, though.

I agree with Coach Z.

Personally, I use a pole touch mostly for two things: rhythm (in bumps, trees, etc. - watch pro bump skiers, who pole touch on every bump), and as an extension of the forward movement that is already happening with my legs, hips, center of mass, etc. If you're doing that forward movement already without the pole touch, and you don't need any rhythm (i.e. deep powder sking with wide, random turns), fine. But the guy in that first pic doesn't look forward at all, and looks to be dropping his hands which is bringing his butt behind his heel pieces - a common problem that you see in a lot of lessons. In other words, +1 on what Coach Z wrote.

Plus it makes one look like a boring stiff

Isn't being able to turn at predefined spot useful?

Hey, just run over that dude in front of you and use the contours of the hill

skimore wrote

Plus it makes one look like a boring stiff

hahahahaha

mattchuck2 wrote

I agree with Coach Z.

Personally, I use a pole touch mostly for two things: rhythm (in bumps, trees, etc. - watch pro bump skiers, who pole touch on every bump), and as an extension of the forward movement that is already happening with my legs, hips, center of mass, etc. If you're doing that forward movement already without the pole touch, and you don't need any rhythm (i.e. deep powder sking with wide, random turns), fine. But the guy in that first pic doesn't look forward at all, and looks to be dropping his hands which is bringing his butt behind his heel pieces - a common problem that you see in a lot of lessons. In other words, +1 on what Coach Z wrote.

Not an instructor here but some good thoughts here from CoachZ and MC2. Perhaps that is just a bad shot? I can't imagine a reputable instructor having that poor of a stance. Goodness knows on any given turn, a photo shot at the wrong time capturing a quick correction can make anyone look bad.

My pole use varies quite a bit. I'll echo MC2 that I find it most useful for rhythm. Otherwise, my poles are primarily used as balance devices. From what I experienced, I think a lot of instruction focuses on pole use to get people to lean forward. But I think it is better to focus on the lower body than the upper body to achieve that end.

As with most technical issues, it is always best to have a bag a tricks and be able to use them all effectively in whichever situation, terrain, or snow condition you find yourself skiing.

HEY COACH!!

Where's my damn beer!!!!  

I've always been a big fan of the Rock'em Sock'em Robot approach...  

Hands out front, shoulders over hips, hips over ankles, sink at the hips, drive from the knees!  And it's always a hoot to tell a girl to not be afraid to stick them boobs out there!  

I'm always using my poles to help drag snowboarders along....  

ScottyJack wrote

HEY COACH!!

Where's my damn beer!!!!  

I was in the bar for a couple of hours Saturday.  I saw HPD still directing traffic in the pick up area and gave the Orange coats props in my conditions post for that.  Scotty catch me soon in the lounge.  I have my son with me so when he gets bored its time to bolt.

What are these Franken-skiers supposed to do if the need arises for a quick change of direction and pole plants aren't advocated. Tackle whats in front?

sj you been hanging at gore? snowboarders always need help there

I guess if you don't turn and your the only one skiing on a powder day it doesn't matter if you use poles. Were are all the people, building toyotas?

Raymo40 wrote

I guess if you don't turn and your the only one skiing on a powder day it doesn't matter if you use poles. Were are all the people, building toyotas?

Raymo FTW! That's what I was thinking, this technique is tailor-made for swooping down uncrowded, open, untracked slopes. Not so much for the east.

I don't know, but if that kind of powder was in my backyard I'd be skiing it.

is that video supposed be a good example of this technique?  The person (can't tell if that is a guy or girl) is barely turning and their butt is behind their heel piece on the binding.  I'm not at all sold on this concept.

In deep powder pole touches can also help with the up motion to bring the skis upward so that it makes the intiation of the next turn easier.

All really good replies.  Blocking pole plants are only type of pole plant and actually is not that instinctive for most skiers. Watch how many "over rotaters" there are skiing down Showcase when your on the Adk Exp that have their hands in their proverbial pockets.  Back seat driving the entire way down the hill. No matter what, you have to have your elbows in front of your body.  I have been explaining it that way to students for years.  The Bob Barnes "pole box" drill is one of the best excercises for stance, alignment and independant leg rotation I ever learned. Works best for alpine turns. Keep your pole tips in a make believe box glued to the side of your skis at your toe plates.  Place the pole tips in the box and drag lines in the snow.  I start every day off with this excercise.  Wasn't leaning back in powder the norm of the day when skis were skinny?  

Mike Pow wrote

Thanks for reading and commenting Mr. Multiglisse.

I don't advocate or teach pole planting.

The style of skiing I practice and promote is about standing tall, centred and light on your skis using the pull of the mountain to accelerate in the fall line and the first part of the turn and pivotting the skis across the fall line and continuing to turn your skis back up the hill to decelerate and manage speed.

The pole plant for most skiers is a blocking action making the skier small and heavy on the snow and forcing the skier to turn at a pre-determined spot rather than where the contours of the mountain and the snow conditions feel best and safest.

You can ski the mountain or you can let the mountain ski you - it sounds like Mikre prefers the latter, not so good when the terrain gets ugly. I don't think I'll be signing up for one of his clinics.