Be the first, or wait for better (early season)

Each year, some ski areas open as early as they possibly can, while others wait till a specific date to open.  The ones that open as early as possible often open with very limited terrain and/or marginal conditions, while the ones that have a hard set date often have better conditions on opening day, even if they open late.

Killington is always opening as early as possible.  It is part of their brand to open early and close late, living up to the "Beast of the East" reputation.  However, when they do open, the terrain is limited to the North Ridge, and is often in mediocre condition.  It also gets very crowded for the amount of terrain.

Tremblant has a hard set opening date on American Thanksgiving Day.  They do not open any earlier.  If they have really good temps, they just open more terrain on opening day.

What does everyone prefer?  I prefer to have ski areas to open on limited terrain earlier, so I at least have the option to ski, even if it is mediocre.

How should ski areas handle early season openings with regards to terrain?

Open as early as possible, even with limited terrain

Open on a hard set date, with as much terrain as prior snowmaking conditions allowed.

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snoloco wrote

 It also gets very crowded for the amount of terrain.

It didn't seem crowded either of the days I went.  Then again they weren't weekends and I am familiar with the weekend spectacle there.  Today I think the longest chair wait for me was 3 chairs.

snoloco wrote

 I prefer to have ski areas to open on limited terrain earlier, so I at least have the option to ski, even if it is mediocre.

Sounds like you should have gotten a K pass.

ml242 wrote

snoloco wrote

 I prefer to have ski areas to open on limited terrain earlier, so I at least have the option to ski, even if it is mediocre.

Sounds like you should have gotten a K pass.

Killington is 4+ hours away, not a possibility.

I think moderators should be able to add more choices to polls.

Ski areas are businesses that do what they think is best.  If every area worked to open limited terrain in October, the brand value would be nil and the it would be that much harder to make it pay.

IMO K and Sunday River doing what they do makes a lot of sense for the east.

The answer to the question "How should ski areas handle early season openings with regards to terrain?" is not binary and will vary by area and by season. Ski areas "should" handle this question however they want to. There is significant risk to blowing early and the return isn't in immediate ticket sales but rather brand awareness and pitching a long season commitment to season pass holders.

That said, I think areas that open early do want to see some short term return. The problem with early season opening is balancing the supply with the demand. If too many areas open early, the limited amount of early season skiers will spread out which in turns thins out the revenue and short term return on investment. So across the region, a macro level balance needs to happen to make it worthwhile for invested areas.

The early opening options that are consistent in recent years are only Killington and Sunday River and that is it. I see no reason why skiers that want to wait for a better product should naysay the early season vibe. To each their own. If you are okay skiing a crowded WROD to get the jones under control, rock on! If you want to wait for top to bottom edge to edge, cool. It isn't a binary issue and we should all applaud early season efforts whether or not we are interested in making first turns in October.

I'm not asking which is better for all ski areas.  That obviously depends on the mountain.  I'm asking which business practice you prefer.

Probably should've added a polling category for "I don't ski early season", as there are some people on here who don't and are very vocal about it.

Don't know how to vote because I ski in more than one region.  For the southeast, only makes sense to open as soon as possible, which might end up being in late Dec.  No point to promise to be open on a fixed day before mid-Jan.  For the northeast, I can see the value of setting a date around Thanksgiving for opening regardless of the amount of terrain available.  Being open before Thanksgiving seems like a waste of effort.  Of course, if I lived closer to those mountains then I'd probably feel differently.

I skied at Whiteface the Sat after Thanksgiving the past three years.  Not much open, especially last year, but enough for a little fun over a holiday period.  Definitely would've been annoyed if WF had decided to wait until mid-Dec for more terrain.

Do think it's ridiculous to have to pay full price for minimal terrain during early season.  Not many places do that, but I know of a few.

riverc0il wrote

The answer to the question "How should ski areas handle early season openings with regards to terrain?" is not binary and will vary by area and by season. Ski areas "should" handle this question however they want to. There is significant risk to blowing early and the return isn't in immediate ticket sales but rather brand awareness and pitching a long season commitment to season pass holders.

That said, I think areas that open early do want to see some short term return. The problem with early season opening is balancing the supply with the demand. If too many areas open early, the limited amount of early season skiers will spread out which in turns thins out the revenue and short term return on investment. So across the region, a macro level balance needs to happen to make it worthwhile for invested areas.

The early opening options that are consistent in recent years are only Killington and Sunday River and that is it. I see no reason why skiers that want to wait for a better product should naysay the early season vibe. To each their own. If you are okay skiing a crowded WROD to get the jones under control, rock on! If you want to wait for top to bottom edge to edge, cool. It isn't a binary issue and we should all applaud early season efforts whether or not we are interested in making first turns in October.

I vote that this post negates any reason to vote in Sno's poll

marznc wrote

Being open before Thanksgiving seems like a waste of effort.  Of course, if I lived closer to those mountains then I'd probably feel differently.

I skied at Whiteface the Sat after Thanksgiving the past three years.  Not much open, especially last year, but enough for a little fun over a holiday period.  Definitely would've been annoyed if WF had decided to wait until mid-Dec for more terrain.

Using Whiteface as an example, they're sort of in the middle.  They open whenever snowmaking conditions allow them to go from LWF to the base.  I've never seen them try to force an opening with gondola downloading.  I don't think it's a waste to open before Thanksgiving because for some skiers, myself included, Thanksgiving usually sucks as a ski weekend due to other commitments.  The weekend before is a lot easier for me to be able to go skiing.  I can usually make it out on Thanksgiving Weekend, but I often need to wait till Sunday and can't go too far from home because the roads are always a crowded mess that day.

marznc wrote

Do think it's ridiculous to have to pay full price for minimal terrain during early season.  Not many places do that, but I know of a few.

Mountain Creek charges full price as soon as they go top to bottom.  Even if it's one trail open.  Still can get ridiculously crowded, especially if they open late, so I don't see it changing.

Whiteface has a set early/late season rate that they charge until Christmas, and also charge in April.  Hunter starts at a price well below full, and then increases it proportionally as available terrain increases going to full price by Christmas.

marznc wrote

Do think it's ridiculous to have to pay full price for minimal terrain during early season.  Not many places do that, but I know of a few.

That could be another reason not to open. You're potentially "losing money" already and some customers are pissed if you try to make it up.

Whiteface/LP is more of a destination that some other mountains so opening much before Thanksgiving may make even less sense.  When you are spending public money you're under more scrutiny.

It only makes sense to open as soon as the terrain allows.  If you have the stock, you sell the product.  The level of maturity of the product is not particularly relevant; you want the income.  The tech business is like that, and any businessman/woman will tell you the same.  Shark Tank taught me that.

I couldn't vote -- neither choice works for me

I need a box that reads " I don't care who is open, how much terrain is open, or how much snow there is, I won't ski until after deer season"  --- which is now only 18 days away

Great movie

campgottagopee wrote

Great movie

Classic! :)

campgottagopee wrote

I couldn't vote -- neither choice works for me

My thoughts exactly. But lets keep that talk to the Off Topic.

I vote that post probably took the long way around the barn....

raisingarizona wrote

campgottagopee wrote

I couldn't vote -- neither choice works for me

My thoughts exactly. But lets keep that talk to the Off Topic.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  

FTW

Nice work ---- I have an appreciation for people who pay attention

ScottyJack wrote

I vote that post probably took the long way around the barn....

Nice!! You brought your A game today