Belleayre Resort at Catskill Park

http://www.belleayreresort.com/index.htm 

There is some interesting stuff on the site. I hope it works. Belleayre will expand to over 300 acres (from 171 acres) and there should be a huge boost to the local economy.

This is a big positive for Plattekill if it happens.

Who's going to pay for this?

Benny Profane wrote

Who's going to pay for this?

Ausable Skier!  

Crossroad Ventures, LLC is paying for most of it. The 2 golf courses, the 2 hotels, the housing developments and the shopping mall. All Belleayre has do do is expand over into the old Highmont area and put in 2 lifts.

http://www.belleayreresort.com/costsbenefits.htm

sweet! new jobs!..perfect excuse to move north..:-)

That site is pretty old. The last time I checked, it hadn't been updated in a while, so no idea if they've revised it to reflect recent conditions and changes.

I had an interesting interview with the people at the Emerson Resort/Crossroads several years ago, but never posted it because the Belleayre Resort kept getting put on ice while they were waiting for the smoke to clear (they're still waiting). The Emerson used to have a full model of the planned resort/ski area in the admin offices.

If you haven't already, google "Dean Gitter" and you can spend the next 24 hours reading about all the back and forth that's been going on for the past 14 years.

ScottyJack wrote

Benny Profane wrote

Who's going to pay for this?

Ausable Skier!  

you guys are just f-ing with me now.  This is never going to happen.  Give it up.

ausable skier wrote

ScottyJack wrote

Benny Profane wrote

Who's going to pay for this?

Ausable Skier!  

you guys are just f-ing with me now.  This is never going to happen.  Give it up.

Comon AS... I peed my pants when I saw this comment pop up!

Belleayre would need a whole new demographic..  
The New jersey - Get a BOGO - jump in the mini van and pack a lunch crowd - will need to be trained to actually spend $$ on their ski trips and stay over night...

what's a BOGO?  

dmc_hunter wrote

Belleayre would need a whole new demographic..  
The New jersey - Get a BOGO - jump in the mini van and pack a lunch crowd - will need to be trained to actually spend $$ on their ski trips and stay over night...

wow someone else besides me gets it that Bell means skiing on the cheap and that is not a workable market to make money

that plan called for high end shopping where the Bell crowd is more the family dollar store type

ScottyJack wrote

what's a BOGO?

^^TWSS!  BOGO stands for "Buy One Get One."

Belleayre has, in the past, given away significant quantities of free tickets in this fashion.  Last year (2010-2011) Belleayre would BOGO anyone who could show $50 in receipts from local businesses. Some estimates were as many as 10% of tickets (16,000) were given free in this manner.  This year those promotions were cut by the Gov, and that in combo with the weather really hurt Bells numbers. Far more than the 15-25% declines suffered by other mountain.

http://catskillmountainnews.com/content/businesses-officials-urge-governor-save-belleayre

I don't buy that there is something INHERENT or built-in to Bell that attracts skiers who spend less. If Whiteface or Gore gave away 16,000 free lift tickets each year those tickets would get used by bargain hunters too. If Bell was handled like Whiteface - consistent capital improvements and tickets sold at a market price, the mountain would become a different place.  Look I really, really don't like the ticket dumping. I just don't think it's fair or financially prudent for the gov't to facilitate the undercutting of private business, and do so while operating at a loss.

But to some extent look at what Bell management was facing - apathy and abandonment by the state/DEC - no capital improvements - and no oversight on ticket promos...I can see why it happened.

Smaller mountains are cool, and they are feeders for bigger mountains and keep the ski business strong.  I'd bet a significant portion of big mountain skiers started out someplace small.  Hell I started out cross country skiing on a hill without a lift.  

Maybe the state shouldn't be in the ski business, but that horse is already out of the barn. State ski hills exist and a lot of people's lives depend on them.  I think it's a bit heartless to advocate flushing Bell or any state hill down the crapper, without trying to find a workable solution.  I agree with those who think Bell could viable.  I don't know if another over the top resort is the answer, but there has to be some middle ground that could work.

Harvey44 wrote

...
Maybe the state shouldn't be in the ski business, but that horse is already out of the barn. State ski hills exist and a lot of people's lives depend on them.  I think it's a bit heartless to advocate flushing Bell or any state hill down the crapper, without trying to find a workable solution.  I agree with those who think Bell could viable.  I don't know if another over the top resort is the answer, but there has to be some middle ground that could work.

+1

Here's a question ... I've only been skiing Whiteface regularly since 2000, which I believe was the year the Gondola was put into service, +/- one year.

Prior to that, I had only been there two or three times, and my vague memory has a picture of a mountain similar to Belleayre, in terms of overall appeal (obviously terrain is not comparable).

The Pataki administration put a LOT of money into Whiteface and Gore ... What were the economics for Whiteface and Gore BEFORE all those capital improvements were made? Were they self-sustaining at that time? Were they making money? Losing money? Have they become more or less profitable since all those improvements were made?

Does anyone have that information or know where to get it?

ausable skier wrote

dmc_hunter wrote

Belleayre would need a whole new demographic..  
The New jersey - Get a BOGO - jump in the mini van and pack a lunch crowd - will need to be trained to actually spend $$ on their ski trips and stay over night...

wow someone else besides me gets it that Bell means skiing on the cheap and that is not a workable market to make money

that plan called for high end shopping where the Bell crowd is more the family dollar store type

Yup, that's the whole point everyone is missing. Developers and politicians have visions of Vail in their little heads when they conjure up these schemes, but, we already have many Vails for a relatively cheap plane fare. Remember what happened when the recession hit a few years ago? Visits went up in the northeast, because families cut back on the western trip and drove to their skiing. That's Bellayre's (and Tupper's, and everyone else's in the East) market. The cheaper, discounted alternative. Not, you know, another fake Bavarian village with half million dollar quarter shares.

There is no doubt WF/Gore increased skier visits w/ capital improvements.  Look at ORDA's annual reports...

I think Belle could increase skier visits to WF/Gore if ORDA offers a three mtn pass.  

My main concern w/ Belleare (besides how to spell it) is climate change.  I've been thinking 6000 feet is where I'm gonna need to get to in the next 10 - 15 years to ensure a decent shot at a nice ski season....   After this winter 6000 feet seems low.  

And if DMC starts rocking the house at Belle then mayB some of us mountain men/women may venture to the foot hills.  

ausable skier wrote

wow someone else besides me gets it that Bell means skiing on the cheap and that is not a workable market to make money

that plan called for high end shopping where the Bell crowd is more the family dollar store type

This has happened already right in your own backyard - Gore and Whiteface. If Belleayre is able to connect with Highmount and build out to its 25 mile limit they will be able to charge more and increase skier visits - just like Gore and WF.

I think there is a market for the village. There are plenty of people who would like to cut 1-2 hours (or more) of driving each way from a weekend ski trip. The added bonus to the village is the other skiing in the Catskills. Maybe the increase in overnight visitors would help to reopen Bobcat.

x10003q wrote

This has happened already right in your own backyard - Gore and Whiteface. If Belleayre is able to connect with Highmount and build out to its 25 mile limit they will be able to charge more and increase skier visits - just like Gore and WF.

I think there is a market for the village. There are plenty of people who would like to cut 1-2 hours (or more) of driving each way from a weekend ski trip. The added bonus to the village is the other skiing in the Catskills. Maybe the increase in overnight visitors would help to reopen Bobcat.

x10003q enjoy your fantasy world

ausable skier wrote

LOL skier - do you keep a file of flying pig pics?

ScottyJack wrote

Benny Profane wrote

Who's going to pay for this?

Ausable Skier!  

BOGO = buy-one-get-one.

tBatt wrote

ScottyJack wrote

Benny Profane wrote

Who's going to pay for this?

Ausable Skier!  

BOGO = buy-one-get-one.

Soo wait... are you suggesting that if AS buys Belleayre the Gov should throw in Highmount?