Belleayre Resort news

ml242 wrote

also, if you want to expand the mission to providing training for Olympic sports or something like that, fine. But economic development seems to benefit a few in this instance more than the whole. Ski resorts just look like Stadium deals a bit to me, maybe the govt shouldn't be involved rather than digging in further?

ie. PRIVATIVE PROFITS, SOCIALIZE DEBTS

(not my debts, of course)

The ski areas are nothing like stadium deals. Stadium/arenas deals make money for private team owners at the expense of taxpayers. The  full time jobs that come with baseball stadiums and hockey/basketball arenas are minimal and in the case of a football stadium almost non-existent.

ORDA has always been about economics. The word Development is in ORDA's name. The ORDA ski areas give people a reason to come to areas in the winter that they would normally not visit.

Your recent posts seem to have a little NIMBYism which is funny because you do not live in this area and therefore do not have to deal with the poor employment options that locals have to suffer.

Coach Z wrote

Kind of what I figured.  You like The ski area and the roads there less crowded.  I'll venture a guess that you side country ski on the old HM trails and this would impact your private playground.

You obviously skipped completely over the part where I said "Want to develop HM? Go ahead."

x10003q wrote

The ski areas are nothing like stadium deals. Stadium/arenas deals make money for private team owners at the expense of taxpayers. The  full time jobs that come with baseball stadiums and hockey/basketball arenas are minimal and in the case of a football stadium almost non-existent.

ORDA has always been about economics. The word Development is in ORDA's name. The ORDA ski areas give people a reason to come to areas in the winter that they would normally not visit.

Your recent posts seem to have a little NIMBYism which is funny because you do not live in this area and therefore do not have to deal with the poor employment options that locals have to suffer.

Who makes money here? Dean.

The FT jobs will also be minimal. Much like the area around Stadiums does not benefit, keeping the bodies in the Belle Hotel and golf course will do similarly.

You guys think I'm cynical about this and are putting words in my mouth, but go look at an area like Jay. It's hustle and bustle on the resort. In the town? Meh. Pretty similar to the cats or anywhere else. In this way stadiums and ski areas are the same. You keep people on the hill, it keeps the money on the hill as well.

I have lots more examples.

You know what else is in ORDA's name? Olympic. When was the last time we had that? Awhile. Also, Authority. Authority sucks. So there you have it, unless we have the olympics, this thing sucks.

And as far as poverty goes, I see more poverty every fucking day in my zip code than exists in the entire Catskills. Literally. There is a homeless guy on my steps right now. And I find the whole notion of "if we do this, it fixes that" disingenuous. It's bad math at best, a bold lie at worst.

These are my beliefs, we'll see what happens. But no, Coach. It has ZIP+ZERO to do with the side country but thanks for that.

The last thing I would say is that if it does make sense, do it a little bit at a time to prove it. I'm not like Sno in this regard where every trail has to be cut and every pipe laid.

Make small incremental steps, have them pay their own way. You don't have to come in like Robert Moses and recast the Bronx just to find out that "whoops, this wasn't the best idea" over the next few decades.

One more thing: HM is grown in and flat out sucks. Those trails are begging for a new lift and a mow.

ml242 wrote

One more thing: HM is grown in and flat out sucks. Those trails are begging for a new lift and a mow.

Not true. As shown in my late-March TR, there's a solid 100 vertical feet of turns before you hit the wall of brambles.

I have to agree that Jay has very little going in town but I can't name one other eastern ski area that does not spawn dozens of other restaurants, retail and lodging businesses if they can get to more than a day area.

I think 750 U.S. a crazy high number but there definitely will be hundreds of jobs if this is successful.

ml242 wrote

You know what else is in ORDA's name? Olympic. When was the last time we had that? Awhile. Also, Authority. Authority sucks. So there you have it, unless we have the olympics, this thing sucks.

LOL, who could top that argument?

If this thing comes to pass, the taxpayers of New York will be making a $50 - $70 million investment in Belle.  I'm not opposed to investing in Belle, in fact I think it's a great addition to ORDA and I agree it needs a significant amount of catch-up investment to bring it up to par with Gore & WF.  $50 million catch-up, I dunno.  But what I really object to is the part where private enterprise (Crossroads Dev) will benefit from the state's investment.  If it's really economically viable, the project should be able to stand on its own, without taxpayer participation (I know, sounds like Big Tupper).

The other part I have a problem with is Dean Gitter.  The guy has made some outrageous statements and I just can't trust the man.  I think in a project like this you're investing in the people behind the project as much as the project itself, and this is a guy I just can't get behind.

x10003q wrote

Plattekill will also benefit from the increase in overnight visits.

I am not so sure Laz would agree with you.  

Marcski wrote

x10003q wrote

Plattekill will also benefit from the increase in overnight visits.

I am not so sure Laz would agree with you.

ROFL. Understatement of the year.  

I was there when the subject of a proposed tubing park at Belle came up. Yowza.

Easy enough to make it right... give Laz 20% of the 50m. A 10M loan at 1%.

Harvey wrote

Marcski wrote

x10003q wrote

Plattekill will also benefit from the increase in overnight visits.

I am not so sure Laz would agree with you.

ROFL. Understatement of the year.  

I was there when the subject of a proposed tubing park at Belle came up. Yowza.

Easy enough to make it right... give Laz 20% of the 50m. A 10M loan at 1%.

I'm guessing any PRIVATELY owned ski area would feel the same way. Life becomes easier when millions and millions of dollars are handed to you

Marcski wrote

x10003q wrote

Plattekill will also benefit from the increase in overnight visits.

I am not so sure Laz would agree with you.

You are correct as he wrote as much in a blog post. Whether he entirely believes what he says is another story. One of the issues with Platty is there is no place to stay and as a day trip it can be a major commitment. If more people were staying overnight in the area then more people would try Platty. You can see Plattekill from Belleayre. We all know what happens when you finally try Platty, you want to go back.

I have no doubt that his skier visits will improve with this development.

If any of this happens in the next 10yrs I would be shocked..

Just reading up on this:  My take is that the "idea" of a development was draw up and publicized so that it substantiated a price for the DEC to purchase the land at a higher value than otherwise.      


Example:  Land value with nothing===1-2M dollars.
Spend $500,000 on blue prints, political donors etc....Land value is 5.7M.  

The older I get and the more articles I see like this, the more tainted I get with respect to the rich and the politicians in each other's pockets for personal gain.     Just like Reps/Dems....they both play the other against the middle and both screw us in the end.    

Notice of Acceptance of Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS) for the Modified Belleayre Resort at Catskill Park

The New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (NYS DEC), as lead agency under 6 NYCRR Part 617 State Environmental Quality Review Act, has accepted the Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS) for the Modified Belleayre Resort at Catskill Park.

Document Availability

· The FEIS for the Modified Belleayre Resort at Catskill Park can be found online at: http://www.thelagroup.com/belleayre-resort-at-catskill-park/

· A hard copy of the FEIS is available for review at the NYS DEC Region 3 Headquarters, 21 South Putt Corners Road, New Paltz, NY 12561-3042, during normal business hours between 8:30 a.m. and 4:45 p.m., Monday through Friday, contact NYS DEC Region 3 at (845) 256-3000 to make an appointment.

· An electronic copy of the FEIS is available for public review at the following locations:

Skene Memorial Library  Main Street  Fleischmanns, NY 12430
Phoenicia Library  9 Ava Maria Drive  Phoenicia, NY 12464
 
Project Description: The applicant, Crossroads Ventures, LLC, proposes a development known as the Modified Belleayre Resort at Catskill Park, which includes the Wildacres Resort and Highmount Spa Resort. Wildacres Resort is located on approximately 254 acres on the eastern side of the Project site, west of the Belleayre Mountain Ski Center, and would include an 18-hole golf course, a 250-unit hotel, and 163 lodging units in multi-unit buildings. Highmount Spa Resort is located on a portion of the approximately 237 acres that includes the site of the former Highmount Ski Area.

Development proposed for the Highmount Spa Resort includes a 120-unit hotel with spa facilities and 53 fractional ownership units. Also proposed is a multi-level lodge building containing 27 fractional ownership units and 16 detached lodging units in 8 duplex buildings.

The project site is located in the Towns of Shandaken (Ulster County) and Middletown (Delaware County) within the boundaries of the New York State Catskill Park. The proposed project is adjacent to the State-owned Belleayre Mountain Ski Center and within the New York City Pepacton Reservoir watershed.

For further information please contact: Daniel T. Whitehead, NYS DEC - Region 3 Headquarters, 21 South Putt Corners Road, New Paltz, NY 12561-1696, Phone: (845) 256-3801. E-mail: dep.r3@dec.ny.gov.

Also released today was the Notice of Acceptance of Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS) for the Belleayre Mountain Ski Center Unit Management Plan (UMP)
 
To see both Notices in their entirety and links to all the supporting documentation go to :  http://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/54704.html
 

HIGHMOUNT – Jim Seward, R-Milford, one of the ranking members of the state Senate, will be joined at 11 a.m. Monday, by state Olympic Regional Development Authority President/CEO Ted Blazer, to announce details of The Belleayre Resort at Catskill Park.

Environmental clearances were announced in September on a $28 million project that, when complete, is envisioned as “the only upscale, four-season resort directly serving the New York metropolitan area.”

It would include the Wildacres Resort and Highmount Golf Club; The Highmount Spa Resort; Belleayre Mountain Ski Center; resort programming and recreational programming.

Wow - that's a lot of lipstick on that pig. So is ORDA going to run this or is it going private?

I visited Mohunk this summer (hiked in), and still am amazed that that place can survive with such high rates, even midweek off season, so, who knows. There seems to be an element that still goes to the Catskills and spends a lot of money. We'll see. Glad to see that my tax dollars are so hard at work, though, and, funny thing, I think I'm the target demographic. Still looks like something that landed from outer space.
Betcha the Tupper Lake robber barons and carpetbaggers are watching this like a hawk.

I can't wait.... until this thing burns into the ground once its abandoned.

Better they improve the trails and incorporate Highmount...