Best Colleges for Skiing?

MikeK
Well put..I will be forwarding your response to my daughter..

Sno, Mt Snow is around a hour or so away from RPI and so is Gore..

sno don't forget you get a 4-5 week break for christmas to ski. RPI is an outstanding engineering school. there is more to college then GPA. you leave the nest and learn how to coexists with others. Being an only child this could pose some challenges.

MikeK wrote

JasonWx wrote

MikeK wrote

2) Employers care less about your GPA than your extracurricular activities, projects and job experience

not necessarily true...all the engineering firm my kid applies to  have a minimum GPA requirement..

  Unless you get into this thing called a technologist, which is a bit of weird degree.  It's more hands on and less theoretical, but a lot companies don't hire unless you have a full engineering degree, so I'd stay away from the technologist thing.  Honestly a really good engineer is a really good theoretician with a lot of practical experience and a pretty good technician as well.  If you are just a good technician without the theoretical knowledge, then you'll only ever just be a good technician.  If you just have the theoretical knowledge, then you may have trouble converting it to reality... some people call those teachers.  It's really a special art to be able to take something from need, to idea, to paper, to reality and quantify it.

Do you have any insight on any  strong programs of this nature? my son is a senior and looking at engineering programs as well but he is very anxious about being in a classroom (and cubicle after college) as he is more hands on but wantsto go to college vs trade school.

gorgonzola wrote

MikeK wrote

  Unless you get into this thing called a technologist, which is a bit of weird degree.  It's more hands on and less theoretical, but a lot companies don't hire unless you have a full engineering degree, so I'd stay away from the technologist thing.  Honestly a really good engineer is a really good theoretician with a lot of practical experience and a pretty good technician as well.  If you are just a good technician without the theoretical knowledge, then you'll only ever just be a good technician.  If you just have the theoretical knowledge, then you may have trouble converting it to reality... some people call those teachers.  It's really a special art to be able to take something from need, to idea, to paper, to reality and quantify it.

Do you have any insight on any  strong programs of this nature? my son is a senior and looking at engineering programs as well but he is very anxious about being in a classroom (and cubicle after college) as he is more hands on but wantsto go to college vs trade school.

You know this whole technologist thing baffles me a bit.  I know Rochester Institute of Tech has a very good program for that, and I do know guys that went for that vs engineering, and they are working as engineers more on the manufacturing side.  It's almost the same degree but they do more practical math and science and get to learn a lot more about tech, how to make stuff, and how to test stuff.

Some companies may see it as a not quite engineering degree, but others may see you as the perfect test engineer or manufacturing engineer.  So it's hard to say.

My guess, but maybe it's not correct and I would research this, is that if you did get and 4 year tech degree, then you may be able to get a Masters in Engineering if you wanted to cover your bases.  You don't have to write a thesis for a Masters in Engineering, it's more project based.  Some places still prefer a Masters in Science, but I think that's more of a research requirement.

I'm going to post a separate response to Jason and Sno, read that too, because it has some other stuff you might want to consider telling your son.

snoloco wrote

I'm probably going to study engineering although I'm not sure what type yet.  I believe RPI has a program where you can get an engineering degree and an MBA in 5 years.

Many schools have options like this.  Even some where you can get your MS in 5 years.

If you aren't sure what engineering you want to do, go to a CC first!  If you are deadset on getting accepted by a particular college, there are tons of 2+2 programs that basically enroll you in the +2 college where you will finish and get your Bachelors degree from but you get the option study the first 2 years at a much discounted rate, and bail and try something else if you don't like it.

The 2+2 has some stringent rules, but not to worry, you don't need that.  Basically all you need to do your first two years of engineering is take something called Engineering Science.  It's an AS (associates in science) degree which is worthless.  Don't worry about the degree, it's the fact that almost all core engineering is the same for the first two years.  The minor differences if should you change disciplines can easily be taken at a CC for a fraction of the cost of major university.  You just have to make sure you figure out transfer when you do finish and head to the next school.  The 2+2 usually guarantees full transfer of credits.

The other advantage is, and look into this, but if you can maintain I believe above a 3.5 GPA, you can get a couple different scholarships that will significantly reduce the cost of your last two years.

As far as engineering schools that I was considering in NY, RPI was high on my list as was Clarkson.  Both of those are close enough you could sneak away to Gore or WF.  RPI is closer to VT, obviously, so you'd have more options there.

I chose to go to RIT because they require you to work in what are called co-ops to graduate.  You wind up with a full year of work experience when you graduate, but it takes 5 years vs 4.  It gives you a very good advantage over others who come straight out with a masters and no work experience.  You can also do combined masters and bachelors with the work experience there too.  My brother did but I'm not sure if he got a masters in engineering or science, but MBA is an options too.  I can ask.  It probably took him 6 years.  There's no where good to ski close to Rochester, but I would check with some of those other schools and see what they do about summer intern or co-op programs.  It's really worthwhile.

PS I kind of consider an MBA an insult on top of an engineering degree.  Engineering is so much more rigorous in mathematics than business degrees that those I know who've done this said it was a joke.  A lot of higher level management where I work have Masters in Science.

snoloco wrote

One thing I would say is that if I got 60 days at Sugarloaf, it would beat 75 days at Jiminy Peak.

Yes.

This is what we have been trying to tell you.  Same would go for Stowe, WF etc.

JasonWx wrote

MikeK
Well put..I will be forwarding your response to my daughter..

I wish her all the best.  It's great to hear of a young woman in engineering.  There aren't enough.

My thought is a 3.5-3.7 with tons of projects and activities and an internship or co-op or two is a dream candidate.

I would encourage anyone to try hard and do their best, but I also wouldn't get freaked out if you can't obtain perfection.  It's not the end-all, say-all.

MikeK wrote

If you aren't sure what engineering you want to do, go to a CC first!  If you are deadset on getting accepted by a particular college, there are tons of 2+2 programs that basically enroll you in the +2 college where you will finish and get your Bachelors degree from but you get the option study the first 2 years at a much discounted rate, and bail and try something else if you don't like it.

The 2+2 has some stringent rules, but not to worry, you don't need that.  Basically all you need to do your first two years of engineering is take something called Engineering Science.  It's an AS (associates in science) degree which is worthless.  Don't worry about the degree, it's the fact that almost all core engineering is the same for the first two years.

I think the Community College thing is bad advice. I didn't know what I wanted to do out of High School, and I'm glad I went to a four year school and picked my major after taking a bunch of different classes my freshman year (and subsequently added another major and a minor later in my college career). Like you said, most of the prerequisites are the same anyway, so you're not losing anything anyway, and I think it's better to make friends immediately at college for four years, rather than coming in halfway through and trying to fit yourself into a pre-established friend circle. And really, in life you shouldn't let a little indecision prevent you from achieving goals. If you want a four year degree (and you do), then go in with the expectation of a four year degree.

I do like the idea of looking for 3+2 programs for an engineering master's. Colby had this with Dartmouth (which I probably should have done, in retrospect). I would also recommend applying to St. Lawrence University, which has a similar 3+2 program with both Dartmouth and RPI. I almost went to SLU because they offer amazingly good financial packages, but I chose Colby because I wanted to ski Sugarloaf, not Whiteface. Although proximity to Big Tupper and ADK backcountry were enticing, too.

To each his or her own.  I know where it worked for A LOT of people, myself included and they were better off than those who went their first two years to a 4 year school - less or no debt, had studied more things and had developed a better college work ethic.  Most of them I know had higher grades and did better when they did transfer, but of course the ones who would have done poorly went on a different path.

It has nothing to do with making friends or social interaction.  It's purely an economical point.  You wind up changing and making friends in different careers and mediums all over after high school, being in two or maybe even 3 different schools should be no challenge.

Recall what I said in my first rants.  You get out what you put in.  No one cares about Freshmen or Sophomores at a 4 year school.  In engineering they expect most of them will drop out anyway.  You can get just as good or better education at a lower cost at a CC.  Not all are the same, so do your HW.

Also recall what I said about graduating with no debt.  I truly did.  And my parents didn't help me.  I had a little help from my grandparents at first, but after I got started and especially past the first two years of Engineering at a CC I was paying my tuition with the money I earned on co-op and a lot of help from the scholarships I got from transfer.

I also had the chance, due to my grades in my higher university to get fellowships for grad work.  I chose a different path, but there was no way I going to pay for that out of pocket.

As far as technician and community colleges you need to be careful about converting to an engineering. Quite a few years ago I was going through a brochure from our local community college, which is pretty good, and some of the course descriptions (e.g circuits) said that it wasn't the same curriculum as the same class in a four year engineering program. Lots has changed since then and many community colleges are part of 2+2 programs which would be fine. Just sayin to be careful before commiting to such a path at a specific school.

tom

TomCat wrote

As far as technician and community colleges you need to be careful about converting to an engineering. Quite a few years ago I was going through a brochure from our local community college, which is pretty good, and some of the course descriptions (e.g circuits) said that it wasn't the same curriculum as the same class in a four year engineering program. Lots has changed since then and many community colleges are part of 2+2 programs which would be fine. Just sayin to be careful before commiting to such a path at a specific school.

tom

Yeah, it's something to be aware of.  There are generally technical classes, and engineering classes... and they don't mix.  Tech leads you to an AAS two year degree or maybe a ET (engineering technology) four year degree, which is actually a useful degree if you want to work in a lab or do drafting (not a great career choice these days simply because they tend to get used and abused).  Engineering leads to 4 year degrees.

Everything engineering related will be calculus based.  That was always the real distinction.

Visited UVM today.  They have an engineering program and will be getting a completely new STEM facility by the time I would possibly attend.  Best skiing access of any of the ones I've visited by far.

snoloco wrote

Visited UVM today.  They have an engineering program and will be getting a completely new STEM facility by the time I would possibly attend.  Best skiing access of any of the ones I've visited by far.

So where would you get a pass? If I were in Burlington I think I would get a pass for Bolton and a weekday pass for MRG, if I could afford that. Bolton actually looks pretty nice and I think it has night skiing. It's also the closest so you wouldn't spend as much time driving or on gas money. They also have touring trails and glades. It's not big but it looks cool imo.

raisingarizona wrote

MRG

Not enough uphill capacity or snowmaking, trails are deserted, lodge is rustic. Natural snow is obsolete.

MRG is the anti Sno Mt.  Same with Smuggs and Jay.  

I think Sno is going to do a Stowe pass which you cant do wrong with. Great area IMO.  If it were me I'd probably go with a Smuggs pass since it's a shorter drive and it would be a great place to ski if I could get away midweek.  Jay would be great but is too far of a drive and more gas usage means less beer for a college student.

With the ski club, they run buses to Stowe and Smuggs every weekend they're open on Saturday and Sunday.  I'd choose Stowe every time.  They don't go to Killington or Jay, but some students go there anyway.  You can't have a car 1st year which has me somewhat worried since making friends is not my strong point at all, but they say it is a very welcoming community unlike my high school which is mostly filled with assholish clique groups which usually have excommunicated me.  It seems like I could easily find many people willing to give rides in exchange for gas money.  I could also join carshare Vermont as a backup if no one was going or had room.

If your ski days are riding on it I think you will find a way to make more friends

Take this as a new page in your life and become more socialable and make it happen.  I know it's harder for only kids but you can do it.

By the time I was second year, I'd make sure I had a car and return the favor to incoming freshman.

Sweet! I hope you keep posting so we can keep up with the Sno saga. Stowe is sick and imo the very best all around mountain in the east. Don't miss out on skiing the lift line at Smuggs tho when the snow is good. It's one of the best steep ski lines in the east. Well when you have a car an extra pass for Bolton might make sense for half days and night skiing.

I would likely get a Bolton Valley pass if I went there anyway.  I was told there are many kids there who leave campus just about every day to ski.  It's part of the culture there, so I'd fit in fine if I did it too.  I plan on getting in touch with the ski club president for more information.

The only variables would be how many people who have a car will go out no matter what in any weather and road conditions.  Also, how many people have cars vs how many want rides.  Like I said earlier, having a Car Share Vermont membership would be a great backup for if no one was willing to give me a ride.