Big Bubbles (6 or 8 pack) What Say You?

I actually don't mind the old, slow lifts if they don't stop every two seconds.

There's one at Bristol that goes over the terrain park and I think it used to be over Galaxy.  I used to take that lift all the time and ski the north, top side of the hill.  Now you have to go all the way down to take the Galaxy lift.  Anyway, that lift wasn't bad there.  Now, if it's the same one, the one on the other side if you take that you might as well ski all the way down and take the Comet Express - it's faster, even skiing down the extra 500' or so.  I'm not sure why that lift stops so much.  And it's slow.  Pick one, please!

I don't really love Gondis either, even skiing Alpine.

Harvey wrote

In the east, the conflict between bottom line and skier experience is more likely to be real. Ski areas want skier visits while (some) skiers might be willing to wait in line a bit longer for fewer runs, a more uncrowded skier experience and better snow.

I'd be fine with a split in resorts, some catering to families/snolocos/vertical foot tracking people (with high speed bubbles, tons of snowmaking, expensive lodges, Epic passes, contrived Instagram locations, heated paths, stratton-esque base villages) and some catering to people who like a more "natural" experience (old slow lifts, possible liftlines on busy days, narrow trails, not a lot of snowmaking, lots of thin cover signs, 40 year old Lodge with classic bar, etc.).

I'm just not sure how long the laid back areas would last in that scenario (and in the era of human caused climate change).

To answer the original question, I like the lifts, but the uphill capacity is too high if they are installed without cutting more trails, widening existing trails, or making tunnels like Killington did to mitigate the problem of too many people on the popular corridors.

I looked at the map of Big Sky and can't imagine skiing in a place like that.  I likely never will.  But it seems appropriate that they have giant, fast lifts.  There's plenty of terrain for even a huge crowd to get spread out.

I still think the HSQ killed eastern skiing.  The little hills I've always skied dh at suck after like 3 hours - pretty much scraped down to the rock hard glacier in that time due to heavy skier traffic up and down.

MC2 5678F589 wrote

vertical foot tracking people (with high speed bubbles, tons of snowmaking and
a more "natural" experience (old slow lifts,  narrow trails, 40 year old Lodge with classic bar

^ me

Cunningstunts wrote

I looked at the map of Big Sky and can't imagine skiing in a place like that.  I likely never will.  But it seems appropriate that they have giant, fast lifts.  There's plenty of terrain for even a huge crowd to get spread out.

I still think the HSQ killed eastern skiing.  The little hills I've always skied dh at suck after like 3 hours - pretty much scraped down to the rock hard glacier in that time due to heavy skier traffic up and down.

High speed lifts saved skiing in the East. You used to get 1 run an hour on weekends at a main lift like Gore's double (Adirondack Express) or the Killington Peak double (Gondola). On most weekends you could wait 15-30 minutes in a permanent post and beam fence corral and then another 15-20 minute ride up a 7000 foot long fixed grip double, freezing your ass off despite wearing a couple of wool ponchos to deal with the cold. The fixed grip triples and quads were a huge help, especially on shorter lifts like Straight Brook and the North areas of Gore.

Today lift lines are never much longer than 8-10 minutes on a normal winter weekend on a main high speed lift and plenty are much less. You now get up the mountain in 5-10 minutes. You can now ski vs standing in a lift line and riding a chair lift.

For those of us lucky enough to ski off peak, HS lifts are amazing. The amount of runs you can take in a day are only limited by your stamina and the hours that the ski area is open.

I do not know if I would still be skiing if a weekend day was still only a handful of runs off a main lift.

x10003q wrote

High speed lifts saved skiing in the East. You used to get 1 run an hour on weekends at a main lift like Gore's double (Adirondack Express) or the Killington Peak double (Gondola). On most weekends you could wait 15-30 minutes in a permanent post and beam fence corral and then another 15-20 minute ride up a 7000 foot long fixed grip double, freezing your ass off despite wearing a couple of wool ponchos to deal with the cold. The fixed grip triples and quads were a huge help, especially on shorter lifts like Straight Brook and the North areas of Gore.

Today lift lines are never much longer than 8-10 minutes on a normal winter weekend on a main high speed lift and plenty are much less. You now get up the mountain in 5-10 minutes. You can now ski vs standing in a lift line and riding a chair lift.

For those of us lucky enough to ski off peak, HS lifts are amazing. The amount of runs you can take in a day are only limited by your stamina and the hours that the ski area is open.

I do not know if I would still be skiing if a weekend day was still only a handful of runs off a main lift.

You are only talking about places that have a lot more acreage than the places I am thinking of.

Perhaps the HSQ saved places like Gore and WF, and bigger places like Killington, but for the <150 skiable acres resorts that were peppered all over NY, they kind of kill it.  JMO.

And by kill these places, I mean in a couple ways:

1 - fast lifts at other places drew more people to those areas for the small areas that chose to keep their slow lifts
2 - installing fast lifts at a small ski area makes it get skied off in a very short time and makes the slopes very crowded

Everyone seems to be busting on Sno in this thread.  He isn’t around to stick up for himself anymore though he may be lurking.  I recently skied with him and he was closing to ride the LWF over the Gondo so he could get more runs in.  He still loves nice new lifts I’m sure but has matured on the topic I believe.

I wasn't busting on him, much. I just think if you are going to visit the forum and you have an opinion on a thread, post it. Emailing me, well I don't read that stuff.

I met sno too, and I liked him.

High speed lifts are a fact of life.  And hey I'm told they saved the industry.

I actually think they work well at Gore, for me. You really don't have to ride them much if you don't want to.

I was kind of being a weenie because I just don't like the 6s and 8s. It's not logical, especially when you consider that they are apparently much improved in the wind.  I didn't know that, I learned it because of this thread.

x10003q wrote

High speed lifts saved skiing in the East. You used to get 1 run an hour on weekends at a main lift like Gore's double (Adirondack Express) or the Killington Peak double (Gondola). On most weekends you could wait 15-30 minutes in a permanent post and beam fence corral and then another 15-20 minute ride up a 7000 foot long fixed grip double, freezing your ass off despite wearing a couple of wool ponchos to deal with the cold. The fixed grip triples and quads were a huge help, especially on shorter lifts like Straight Brook and the North areas of Gore.

Today lift lines are never much longer than 8-10 minutes on a normal winter weekend on a main high speed lift and plenty are much less. You now get up the mountain in 5-10 minutes. You can now ski vs standing in a lift line and riding a chair lift.

For those of us lucky enough to ski off peak, HS lifts are amazing. The amount of runs you can take in a day are only limited by your stamina and the hours that the ski area is open.

I do not know if I would still be skiing if a weekend day was still only a handful of runs off a main lift.

I agree with this 100%
There was a time at Hunter before the HSQ , lines on the "A" lift would exceed 1 hour..Then you would have to deal with the slow ride up..

raisingarizona wrote

 I don’t think I’ve ever steered away from a lift because of its technology or configuration let alone felt like I had an issue with it, except for being too slow.
 

At 6'4" I've ridden some lifts that were super low both loading and unloading. They kill my knees getting on and off to the point I will just head to the bar instead of taking the pain. It's weird tho cause on POW days they don't hurt

Who the heck would prefer to ride a slow lift? It’s skiing! Not sightseeing!

Some of my best ski days have been at places with slow lifts (Platty, MRG, Silverton), and some of my best days have been at places with High Speed lifts (Squaw, Kirkwood, Jackson Hole)

Someone who is old, on teles, panting out of breath, but still hopes for a second shot at an untracked line on a mountain that is loaded with younger ripping alpine skiers?

You know, a unicorn!



Is earning turns a different sport?

I guess the point I was going for is that smaller areas don't necessarily benefit from the fast lifts.  If you get there first thing in the morning and go balls out for 3 hours, you might get a benefit.  But even on a crowded weekend that's gonna be some hairy skiing, especially on blue groomers where you have guys carving at mach 3 and kids wedging at 5 mph.

I just remember when I was a kid and the skiing at those kind of places was pretty good, even at night, which is what most of my skiing was for financial reasons.

Maybe I'm just old and a curmudgeon, but it seems like the high speed lifts were really what changed that.

You earn em one way or another.

Ok, we like fresh lines and the small mom and pop atmosphere but if someone says they prefer a slow lift over a fast one I’m gonna think they’re a bit kooky. I think your associating the small independent ski area vibe with slow lifts but let’s not kid ourselves, sitting on a chair all day vs. skiing sucks. Especially if you earned those turns sitting in an office 5 days a week.

Skiing weekends at a ski resort that’s popular with a nearby urban center sucks regardless. Those weekday sleeper pow days is where it’s at.

I’ve always lived by a ski area. 3 hours here and there is the norm. You can pick and choose your days. I never feel like I need to ski with crowds and if it’s that busy I usually go home anyways. The high speed lift is awesome to knock out some vert real quick. You can easily get in 10k in an hour and a half, track out the place and be driving home before the crowds even get there.

Cunningstunts wrote

I guess the point I was going for is that smaller areas don't necessarily benefit from the fast lifts.  If you get there first thing in the morning and go balls out for 3 hours, you might get a benefit.  But even on a crowded weekend that's gonna be some hairy skiing, especially on blue groomers where you have guys carving at mach 3 and kids wedging at 5 mph.

I just remember when I was a kid and the skiing at those kind of places was pretty good, even at night, which is what most of my skiing was for financial reasons.

Maybe I'm just old and a curmudgeon, but it seems like the high speed lifts were really what changed that.

I do not think HS lifts are needed at smaller areas.  But I really do not want to spend a weekend riding long fixed grip doubles (or The Single). MRG and Smugglers are worth mid-week days, but I am not skiing either one on a weekend.

There are other issues besides HS lifts that have caused smaller areas to close - location, lack of snowmaking, boring terrain, insurance, family ownership, generally at the mercy of weather - all which make it difficult to earn a living.  

x10003q wrote

There are other issues besides HS lifts that have caused smaller areas to close - location, lack of snowmaking, boring terrain, insurance, family ownership, generally at the mercy of weather - all which make it difficult to earn a living.

Oh I agree - most of them were too small, too boring, too expensive.  Unfortunately less areas makes the remaining ones very busy.  I guess that's OK if you have over 400 acres (which is still pretty small), but that ain't the case where I live.

raisingarizona wrote

a bit kooky

I'll own it.

Harvey wrote

raisingarizona wrote

a bit kooky

I'll own it.

Same here! I'll take chair 1 (old double) at GP over the fancy new lift any single day. I also don't like riding with strangers. Not because I don't enjoy the conversation, because I do. I just don't like unloading with someone who could flail around like a fish out of water and take a bunch of us out. Falling, for whatever reason, is more likely to hurt these days than it used too.