Big Bubbles (6 or 8 pack) What Say You?

Not a fan of any chair bigger than a quad. Also not a fan of Unofficial, but:

https://unofficialnetworks.com/2018/12/15/big-sky-officially-opens-the-worlds-most-technologically-advanced-chairlift/

Somebody who thinks this is a good idea tell me why.

Harvey wrote

Not a fan of any chair bigger than a quad. Also not a fan of Unofficial, but:

https://unofficialnetworks.com/2018/12/15/big-sky-officially-opens-the-worlds-most-technologically-advanced-chairlift/

Somebody who thinks this is a good idea tell me why.

At big destination resorts like Big Sky, the only place and time there is any sort of a lift line is first thing in the morning at the base.  There are essentially two ways away from the main Big Sky base.  One heads up Andesite Mt., which is great as a quick warm up or on days when the upper mountain has low visibility or wind problems.  In the northeast, Andesite would be a good size ski are by itself with terrain for all levels, but mainly blue and black, groomers, bumps, and trees.  The other base lift accesses everything else.  The sooner people get spread out, the better.

The new chair is also the access to a fancy restaurant, and I think it will be used during the summer too.  Non-snow lift rides are social activities.  A family group of 4-6 can have more fun on the same chair instead of being split into two chairs.

I'm headed to Big Sky in late February.  Will be a big group there from another ski forum.  Although I picked my dates for my own reasons before that was set up.  Last time at Big Sky was in 2013.  Looking forward to the relatively new quads that are new to me, including Challenger and Shedhorn.  A side benefit of the new Ramcharger 8 for Andesite is that the old quad was move to replace the Shedhorn double that was very slow.

Does that help?

marznc wrote

At big destination resorts like Big Sky, the only place and time there is any sort of a lift line is first thing in the morning at the base.  There are essentially two ways away from the main Big Sky base.  One heads up Andesite Mt., which is great as a quick warm up or on days when the upper mountain has low visibility or wind problems.  In the northeast, Andesite would be a good size ski are by itself with terrain for all levels, but mainly blue and black, groomers, bumps, and trees.  The other base lift accesses everything else.  The sooner people get spread out, the better.

The new chair is also the access to a fancy restaurant, and I think it will be used during the summer too.  Non-snow lift rides are social activities.  A family group of 4-6 can have more fun on the same chair instead of being split into two chairs.

I'm headed to Big Sky in late February.  Will be a big group there from another ski forum.  Although I picked my dates for my own reasons before that was set up.  Last time at Big Sky was in 2013.  Looking forward to the relatively new quads that are new to me, including Challenger and Shedhorn.  A side benefit of the new Ramcharger 8 for Andesite is that the old quad was move to replace the Shedhorn double that was very slow.

Does that help?

At many resorts the only place you get a line is at the base in the morning.

I'd think that a gondola would be better than a chair to access a restaurant.

So it's cheaper than a gondola? This thing sounded expensive.

Harvey wrote

At many resorts the only place you get a line is at the base in the morning.

I'd think that a gondola would be better than a chair to access a restaurant.

So it's cheaper than a gondola? This thing sounded expensive.

The restaurant is small and pricey from what I've read.  Reservations pretty much required.

As I remember, the length to the top of Andesite is relatively short.  A gondola seems inappropriate but that's just a guess.  I know it would be very annoying to have to take skis off every time when lapping Andesite groomers.  I spent the better part of a day doing that during my first trip to Big Sky when I was doing a personal demo day.  There is an independent ski shop that is right off an Andesite groomer that also is the run out for some glades.

There was a gondola to the base of Lone Peak.  Plan is to build a new one in the next 5-10 years.

https://liftblog.com/gondola-one-big-sky-resort-mt/

Pretty sure a gondola vs a 8-seat bubble have different reactions to high winds.  But not sure which is better.  May not be relevant for Ramcharger since that base lift doesn't seem to have wind issues.

As a teleskier I'm not a fan of gondolas for the reason you mention. (If I was an alpine skier I would care a lot less).  That's why I'm a fan of the quads.  They load easily, and can put more people on the trails than you probably want.

Seems like the only upside of that thing is keeping groups of six or eight together.  These are high speed chairs, you're talking about a few minutes. Can you talk to seven other people at a time?  I love double chairs. Ski with a few others, and mix it up who rides with who. Get some one on one time. My wife and I have had some important convos on the High Peaks chair at Gore.

The way I understand it bubble chairs are usually a little better than gondolas for windhold, but not a whole lot. I'm guessing an 8-person bubble can get blown around. At Gore, the reason the new quad is not a bubble is because it serves much of the same terrain as the gondi and they didn't want their two primary lifts to be shut down at the same time.

I guess I should break this out.

Harvey wrote

As a teleskier I'm not a fan of gondolas for the reason you mention. (If I was an alpine skier I would care a lot less).  That's why I'm a fan of the quads.  They load easily, and can put more people on the trails than you probably want.

Seems like the only upside of that thing is keeping groups of six or eight together.  These are high speed chairs, you're talking about a few minutes. Can you talk to seven other people at a time?  I love double chairs. Ski with a few others, and mix it up who rides with who. Get some one on one time. My wife and I have had some important convos on the High Peaks chair at Gore.

The way I understand it bubble chairs are usually a little better than gondolas for windhold, but not a whole lot. I'm guessing an 8-person bubble can get blown around. At Gore, the reason the new quad is not a bubble is because it serves much of the same terrain as the gondi and they didn't want their two primary lifts to be shut down at the same time.

I guess I should break this out.

I don't like gondolas in general.  But can be a nice alternative on a frigid day.  I'm at Sunday River, which has a chondola with 6-seater chairs.  Seems to work out well.

It's not about talking to 7 other people.  It's about keeping a group together.  In addition to multi-family get togethers at Big Sky, there are a fair number of ski clubs that spend a week there on a regular basis.  I don't like skiing with more than 3-4 others, but there are plenty of people cruising Big Sky groomers who like the social aspect of a skiing vacation.  One day my two ski buddies and I ended up eating lunch at the same place as a ski club of seniors from New England.  Must have been over 40 people.

Just read the full article about Ramcharger 8 on Liftblog.  Caught the fact that "Big Sky plans to introduce three Omega V gondola cabins to the lift for winter 2019-20.  Two will be dedicated dining cars, allowing guests to sit around a table installed in the cabin for a premier dining experience.  Another car will be reserved as a VIP cabin.  The CWA gondola cabins will be the first of their kind in North America."  So in fact this is a lift that can handle chairs and cabins.  My guess is that the cabins would be used during the summer when the lift will run slower than it will during the ski season.

If skied Killington this past week and while the new bubble 6 pack is comfy it is stopping a lot.  The best lad lift was very slow and cold.  This one seems excessive.  A bubble HSQ would have worked.

They put a couple tunnels in to eliminate all the intersections on Snowdon now that they are expecting more traffic with this lift.  Probably a good idea but seems kinda amusement park like and not natural

Harv, you need to come out west and experience some of our mega resorts to see why this sort of thing makes sense. These places are WAY bigger than Whiteface or Killington. Big Sky is MASSIVE. That chair looks pimp AF to me if it's getting people up and out of a base area or accesses a huge amount of terrain. Jus sayin.

You really need to break out of your bubble man. EC skiing is cool and all but........come on now!

Z wrote

 seems kinda amusement park like and not natural

Yeah, that was my reaction when I saw the plans last year. Snowdon isn’t a challenging section at all but it use to be pretty chill. Seems like it’ll be more like Ramshead and Snowshed now

Snowdon was one of my fav pods but it didn’t feel or ski the same now

The good 5h8ng about the tunnels is they are huge and now they can drive a groomer thru them so it’s not all ice inside them

OK so I don't like the thing and I was shooting my mouth off.  I also acknowledge that you can look at something that you think is ugly, but if it serves it's function beautifully it changes your mind.

I read more about the new lift and the goal was to double the uphill capacity. The chairs are 8 seconds apart, so maybe they could move even more people by bunching them up tighter. I think I read they are running it at 5 meters per second which seems pretty fast too.

It sounds like the lift makes sense if old lift had long lines much of the day. Also I read that the thing has been engineered to be "significantly" more wind resistant then your average gondola.  Also also the increase in uphill capacity is really small as a percentage of the total (28000/hr) too.

As far as (human) bubbles, I don't deny it and you're right, I don't get out much. The places that I gravitate to are small with primitive and outdated facilities. Thinking about it now I realize I never deal with lift lines. I can't remember waiting more than 10 minutes in the last ten years.  Clearly catering to me is not the future of skiing.  On the upside, maybe if I say some more stupid shit snoloco will stop emailing me about this thread and post.

I'm skiing Sunday River for a few days because of the Ikon pass.  The lifts at SR are a mix.  There are a few high speed detachable quads, the chondola, plus some older and slower fixed grip triples and quads.  The chondola chairs are 6-seaters.  Serves the primary base.  The extra seats are needed on weekends for sure.

Even though today was a weekend (Sunday), it was not very busy.  Conditions were pretty good, at least until the groomers got skied off.  Sunny most of the day.  Very little of the trees or bump terrain was open because it was too frozen.  Have to say that I much prefer no line and a high-speed lift.  Especially when skiing solo.  The ratio of lift ride to actual skiing is much better.  Also means I can stay warmer with less time sitting on a lift.

Jiminy Peak has a detachable 6-pack to the summit.  That is a key reason that I could easily spend a week there slope side and be quite happy.  The terrain mix is good too for a small resort.  But if the main lift were a fixed grip quad . . . I'd probably wouldn't have gone back after checking the place out.  And I'm sure the lines on a weekend would be horrendous.

Jiminy is a great case study for this debate. When I learned to ski there, there was a fixed grip riblet double where the six pax is now. You had to stand on line some times but the trails were a lot less crowded then they are now. It was a quaint, homey kind of place, more like the way Catamount is now. Over the years Jiminy has evolved into a Berkshire version of Hunter or Windham. That six pack would have been severe overkill for the old Jiminy but modern Jiminy wouldn’t be possible without it.

Brownski wrote

Jiminy is a great case study for this debate. When I learned to ski there, there was a fixed grip riblet double where the six pax is now. You had to stand on line some times but the trails were a lot less crowded then they are now. It was a quaint, homey kind of place, more like the way Catamount is now. Over the years Jiminy has evolved into a Berkshire version of Hunter or Windham. That six pack would have been severe overkill for the old Jiminy but modern Jiminy wouldn’t be possible without it.

The locals I met and skied with at Jiminy least season clearly enjoyed getting in laps off the high-speed lift for a couple hours midweek before heading to work.  Part of the reason I noticed them was that there were five people getting on the same chair multiple times even though there was no line.  It was obvious they were friends who wanted to chat together on the ride up.

The 6-pack is also the lift that runs during the "green" seasons for scenic chairlift rides.  And for the special "in the dark" Halloween rides.

Berkshire East has figured out a business model that works for a small ski area that caters to folks willing to drive an hour or two on weekends to ski without lift lines.  With several revenue-generating activities during the summer.  The lift to the summit is a slow quad.  Wonder if there are any long term plans to upgrade that lift?

So maybe there are two different things here:

Out west where some places are huge, trails are uncrowded and lines are long, the new megabubbles make sense because they are less susceptible to wind than gondolas.  Goals of (most) skiers and ski area management line up.

In the east, the conflict between bottom line and skier experience is more likely to be real. Ski areas want skier visits while (some) skiers might be willing to wait in line a bit longer for fewer runs, a more uncrowded skier experience and better snow.

??

Sort of. In the case of Jiminy, MY preference would have been to spread all the business they’re doing to Berkshire East, Butternut, Catamount, even West, and maybe reopen Brody so that you could have both less crowded trails and shorter lift lines (whether on quads, six packs, doubles or whatever). Jiminy is a great place that is well run. It’s not surprising that they’ve put-competed their neighbors so dramatically but the weekend skiing experience there has changed dramatically over the years. It was never quite Plattekill but it wasn’t as much like Hunter as it is now.

I guess you can’t turn back time but I liked the way it used to be.

Gondolas are nice, but I really like the idea of not having to take my skis off every time.  Some chairs should be bubbles....Jay's Freezer and WF Summit come to mind.

What I can't stand is the conveyor belts and gates that some places use.  Especially the conveyors.

I can't imagine an 8-pack gets blown around much.  A group of us put chairs on a haul rope once.  Fixed grip quads.  F'n things must weigh 1000 lb. each.  It took 4 reasonably fit guys everything to lift the damn things on.

I like comfort. Those seats sure do look nice. Jus sayin.

Expose loco’s emails!!!!

Haha!

I don’t remember the last time I rode a long, slow double chair. Sounds brutal. I prefer skiing . I’m kidding of course but in all honesty, I don’t think I’ve ever steered away from a lift because of its technology or configuration let alone felt like I had an issue with it, except for being too slow. I’ve had a lot of days where I go hiking or mountain biking because I can’t justify sitting on the Agassiz triple for mediocre conditions, our six pack changed that. Well......sort of.


It hasn’t snowed in close to two weeks now. I’m not going skiing, there’s better things to be doing.