Big SNOW in NJ, set to open Oct 2019 . . . make that Dec 2019

Halley plans to be at the Big SNOW opening.  The video clip shows skiers and riders on the big slope.  I would guess those are mostly instructors and other staff.  Halley has been doing videos about Terrain Based Learning (TM) for Snow Operating since the business started.

A bit different having no support poles for the chairlift, so it's completely open slope under the lift.

Can buy tickets for slope time on the website but the lesson packages aren't available yet.  Perhaps need time for instructor trainer.  Eventually will be able to add 2 hours of slope time for $20 to a 2-hour lesson package, which is about $50 online and $70 walk up.  Two hours of slope time without a lesson or rentals is $30-50.

https://www.bigsnowamericandream.com

She's adorable...   That's what I got out of that...

dmc_hunter wrote

She's adorable...   That's what I got out of that...

Pretty sharp too.  She won an Emmy for the Snow Report.

https://www.skimag.com/news/halley-obrien-wins-emmy

The write up on Liftblog goes into quite a bit of detail.  Turns out the chairlift was installed during the original construction back in 2008.  The 2-hour time clock doesn't start until a guest actually makes it onto the snow.

https://liftblog.com/2019/12/05/indoor-skiing-comes-to-america-with-big-snow/#more-74634
" . . .
Two main lifts each rise 160 feet with approximately 700 feet of slope length.  The BIG Express quad is a Doppelmayr CTEC Sprint model with a capacity of 2,400 skiers per hour at full speed.  A parallel lift called The Poma (though also built by Doppelmayr) runs virtually the same alignment but was not operating today.  It really isn’t needed unless the quad goes down.  What’s wild is all of the towers come down from the ceiling, leaving every inch of snow for skiing and snowboarding.  Rounding out the lift offerings are two 225 foot conveyors from Magic Carpet Ski Lifts.
. . .
Snow conditions were excellent this afternoon as you’d expect when all the variables are controlled.  Radiant cooling from below keeps everything at 28 degrees between 10:00 am to 10:00 pm.  When making snow at night, the Big Snow team drops the temp and humidity.  Apparently very little melting occurs because there’s no sunshine.  As the slogan goes, every day is a snow day.
. . ."

That answers the vert question at least, 160 feet

marznc wrote

Snow conditions were excellent this afternoon as you’d expect when all the variables are controlled.  Radiant cooling from below keeps everything at 28 degrees between 10:00 am to 10:00 pm.  When making snow at night, the Big Snow team drops the temp and humidity.  Apparently very little melting occurs because there’s no sunshine.  As the slogan goes, every day is a snow day.

I think I want to throw up.

Here's the best article I've found so far.  The video report gives some feel for the place.  Given that Lindsey Vonn learned to ski at small hills in the midwest, not a surprise that she felt right at home.  And a lot warmer. :-)

https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/bergen/east-rutherford/2019/12/05/american-dream-big-snow-indoor-ski-slope-opens-meadowlands/2612578001/

Apparently they are 80% booked for the weekend already.  I'm guessing but it could be that the price increases slightly as the numbers for a given time period cross a given threshold.  The range I've seen so far is only a difference of a few dollars, with the more expensive times at what look like popular times.  The 2-hour time clock doesn't start until someone reaches the snow, after viewing the orientation video.  The video intro reminds me of what a zipline near my house does.

Apparently Mountain Creek season pass holders can get walk-up tickets for 50% off.  The other resort partners include the Fairbanks Group (Jiminy Peak, Bromley, Cranmore) and Blue Mountain, PA.  All of them work with Snow Operating.  Snow Operating operates Mountain Creek and is a 50% owner.  The co-founders were senior managers at MC before leaving to start Snow Operating several years ago.

This article has a few more photos.

Big Snow Article

after looking at the pics...all I can say is   Why?

JasonWx wrote

after looking at the pics...all I can say is   Why?

You guys are lucky to live pretty close to ski country, even if that means driving a few hours.  Most of you have been skiing for most of your life.  Some of you have had the fun of getting kids started on skis, but some of you have not.

I moved 5 hours south of Washington DC in high school when my mother decided NYC wasn't going to be where she wanted to be when my father retired.  I didn't know anyone who skied so never skied in the NC mountains until I married a skier.  It's a 3-4 hour drive for slopes that take an intermediate 3-4 min to finish, even when making lots of turns and stopping a couple times.  But it was fun.  But we didn't have the vacation time or money to do much more than a weekend each winter.

If I were still living in NYC and wanted to see if my kid would like to ski, I would go to Big SNOW.  By the time I had a kid old enough for ski school, I had both time and money, but a non-skiing husband (been married to #2 for over 25 years, still good friends with #1 and ski with him and his current wife at Alta).  What she experienced at age 4 at Massanutten wasn't that different than what Big SNOW can provide.  But it took a lot of effort on my part to set up a first ski trip to Massanutten, with the good possibility that she wouldn't like it or that the weather wouldn't cooperate.

I don't care about American Dream.  But I'm interested in indoor snow centers. They are popular in Europe, why not in N. America?  The skiing and experience is going to be way better than on an indoor rolling carpet or even outdoor carpet.  I've done both.  Haven't skied on outdoor plastic (Nevaplast) but have watched a ski school director carve out a few turns.  Problem was the slope was so short he was done in under a minute.  The magic carpet ride to go for another run took 5+ minutes.

PeeTex wrote

marznc wrote

Snow conditions were excellent this afternoon as you’d expect when all the variables are controlled.  Radiant cooling from below keeps everything at 28 degrees between 10:00 am to 10:00 pm.  When making snow at night, the Big Snow team drops the temp and humidity.  Apparently very little melting occurs because there’s no sunshine.  As the slogan goes, every day is a snow day.

I think I want to throw up.

Then please go to another "room" before you do.

Just to be clear, those are NOT my words.  It's a quote from the article from Liftblog that I referenced.  Thought it might be of interest to those who know about snowmaking.

A bit more content in this video report by a NJ reporter who looks like she hasn't skied much, but enough to get down the slope in one piece.  The terrain park is where is possible to see folks who have clearly been on snow before.

A couple more videos.  The first is a review that was probably filmed during the early opening for invited guests and media.  The second is from 2009.  No snow but can see the pipes that keep things cold.

My angst is not directed towards you but rather the thought that man made perfect conditions is any substitute for the outdoors and what nature offers.

I commented on another message board that I don't understand why the original sponsors (from ~10 years ago) decided  to build the first one in North America in a market with numerous 1K+ vert ft hills in 1-4 hr drive.

Nothing against the idea of indoor skiing, but given the rarity and expense of these facilities, I would think a tourist mecca in the south/midwest (e.g. Orlando) would have a much better long term outlook. After the novelty wears off in a year or two, I'm guessing this place will only be frequented by local teenagers.

PeeTex wrote

My angst is not directed towards you but rather the thought that man made perfect conditions is any substitute for the outdoors and what nature offers.

I figured that.  It was the way the quote ended up that caused me to Reply.

Your kids and grandkids were lucky enough to grow up skiing.  They get to ski at Alta on a regular basis.  That was true for my daughter as well.  But there are people who could get hooked by having fun at a place like Big SNOW.  I've known of people who have a first experience outdoors that completely turns them off.  Too cold, too scary, and/or too difficult.

The Snow Operating folks are very clear that Big SNOW is not meant as any sort of substitute for skiing on a mountain outdoors.  It's meant to compliment that experience.  Also may be a better way to get started.  Presumably the list of resort partners that are in driving distance of northern NJ can grow in the future.  A few sessions at Big SNOW during pre-season could also be good for people who are flying to ski to get warmed up so that there time in the real mountains is that much more fun.

My comparison is not to Whiteface or Gore or Greek, or even Plattekill or Mountain Creek, but to Ober in TN or Appalachian in NC.  Big SNOW is 4 acres of perfect snow for 365 days a year with no worries about weather and little chance of 20-30 min lift lines.  Ober and App are each under 40 acres of 100% manmade snow for at most 3 months, with plenty of days even in Jan or Feb that it's not worth driving an hour due to rain or warm weather.

Nova Ski wrote

I commented on another message board that I don't understand why the original sponsors (from ~10 years ago) decided  to build the first one in North America in a market with numerous 1K+ vert ft hills in 1-4 hr drive.

Nothing against the idea of indoor skiing, but given the rarity and expense of these facilities, I would think a tourist mecca in the south/midwest (e.g. Orlando) would have a much better long term outlook. After the novelty wears off in a year or two, I'm guessing this place will only be frequented by local teenagers.

How many people who have never skied or snowboarded . . . and don't have friends or family who do . . . do you think know about the small hills close to the NYC metropolitan area?  How many do you think will hear about Big SNOW at some point?

As for Orlando, my sense of the tourists who go there is that they aren't that likely to be interested in spending time indoors where it's 28 degrees.  The advantage of Florida for a vacation is that people can play outdoors all year long, without having to worry about buying or bringing jackets and snow boots.  Consider that the other two mega-malls in North America are in pretty cold regions (MN, Alberta).  When it's frigid outside, spending a day at a huge indoor space with lots to do can be an attractive idea.

I don’t really see indoor skiing areas as getting more people into the sport. It doesn’t add up for me but it sure is cool for park skiing. Imagine the skills one could develop having a facility like this near by year round. Still, it’s sort of an excessive use of natural resources so rich kids can have a snow covered “skate park”.

raisingarizona wrote

I don’t really see indoor skiing areas as getting more people into the sport. It doesn’t add up for me but it sure is cool for park skiing. Imagine the skills one could develop having a facility like this near by year round. Still, it’s sort of an excessive use of natural resources so rich kids can have a snow covered “skate park”.

How it is any more excessive than what is needed for 100% snowmaking coverage at ski areas in the east, midwest, or southwest that essentially wouldn't exist otherwise?  I'm thinking about places with under 300 acres.

In the southeast, terrain parks and snowboarders are a huge part of making slopes a money making business.  Night skiing helps extend the total number of hours during the relatively short season.  I assume the same is true in the midwest where night skiing can go until midnight or later at times.

There are X-Games medalists who train in indoor snow centers in Europe.  Meaning they get on a plane to spend a week or two.

I suppose I'm looking more at the business side of things as having it in Orlando (or some other sun belt city) creates more revenue streams since folks have to rent coats, ski pants, etc. in addition to ski gear. Skier or not, most everyone in greater NYC has winter gear or can easily pick up some cheap stuff nearby.

I don't know much about these places but the one I hear the most about is in Dubai so I'm guessing it must be successful. Just curious why they didn't try scope a US city with somewhat similar criteria for the first one on this side of the Atlantic (zero skiing, warm weather novelty, etc....)