Big SNOW in NJ, set to open Oct 2019 . . . make that Dec 2019

marznc wrote

raisingarizona wrote

I don’t really see indoor skiing areas as getting more people into the sport. It doesn’t add up for me but it sure is cool for park skiing. Imagine the skills one could develop having a facility like this near by year round. Still, it’s sort of an excessive use of natural resources so rich kids can have a snow covered “skate park”.

How it is any more excessive than what is needed for 100% snowmaking coverage at ski areas in the east, midwest, or southwest that essentially wouldn't exist otherwise?  I'm thinking about places with under 300 acres.

In the southeast, terrain parks and snowboarders are a huge part of making slopes a money making business.  Night skiing helps extend the total number of hours during the relatively short season.  I assume the same is true in the midwest where night skiing can go until midnight or later at times.

There are X-Games medalists who train in indoor snow centers in Europe.  Meaning they get on a plane to spend a week or two.

Air conditioning.

Still, it won’t have anything on Phoenix. Now that is a serious shit show and excessive use of natural resources!

Nova Ski wrote

I suppose I'm looking more at the business side of things as having it in Orlando (or some other sun belt city) creates more revenue streams since folks have to rent coats, ski pants, etc. in addition to ski gear. Skier or not, most everyone in greater NYC has winter gear or can easily pick up some cheap stuff nearby.

I don't know much about these places but the one I hear the most about is in Dubai so I'm guessing it must be successful. Just curious why they didn't try scope a US city with somewhat similar criteria for the first one on this side of the Atlantic (zero skiing, warm weather novelty, etc....)

The package deal doesn't charge for outerwear separately.  The premise seems to be KISS.  If you don't own gear or don't want to bother to bring your stuff, then you don't have to bring anything.  Not even a jacket good for 28 degrees.  What they are selling are gloves.  People keep asking about goggles on the FB page.  Obviously goggles aren't that important with no wind or rain, and no snow guns operating during open hours.

Given the cost of building such a gigantic and complex building, I doubt it would makes sense as a standalone project in the U.S.  Just thought of another factor . . . how much more difficult would it be to fully staff an indoor slope in a region where relatively few people have any experience sliding on snow?  I have a sense of how hard it is for Massanutten to keep the water park fully staffed.  But finding people who already know how to swim willing to be trained as life guards seems like an easier task.

Warning . . . I've been paying attention to indoor centers for a while.  May tend to run on a bit.

Most indoor snow centers are in northern Europe.  The only one in southern Europe is in the Madrid Xanadu Shopping Mall, which opened in 2003.  Looks like there are about 30 in Europe, mostly in the UK, Germany, and the Netherlands.  The Dutch company SnowWorld is working with an American partner to develop in indoor snow center in Maryland.

https://www.skiresort.info/indoor-ski-areas/europe/

I have no idea what prompted the original Xanadu Meadowlands developer to decide to include the indoor slope from the start.  Could be that Triple Five inherited the idea and simply worked to find the best way to make it work.  Pretty clear construction was essentially complete by 2009 given that the lifts were installed and the floor was complete.  Partnering with Snow Operating was extremely smart from what I know about Snow Operating and TBL.  That wouldn't have been an option in 2008 or 2009.

I paid close attention when Cataloochee in NC and Snowshoe in WV started working with Snow Operating in 2012.  Was also clear that Killington and Snowbasin got a lot out of TBL and the other consulting services.  Had a lesson at Snowbasin with a couple friends where we used the TBL features to work on a fundamental skill.  We were all advanced skiers.

never mind

Lindsey Vonn and Donna Weinbrecht on the first chair. They know PR.

never mind

Found where I stuck the info about the X Games athlete who trains at an indoor slope in The Netherlands.  The girl in the 2011 video is Kelly Sildaru, who won a gold at the X Games in 2016 when she was 13.  Her little brother is competing too.  They are sponsored by Faction.  Kelly had to miss the 2018 Winter Olympics after blowing an ACL at the end of the previous season.

The indoor snow facility is, Landgraaf, which is owned by Snow World.  That's the company that hopes to build a snow center in MD.  Some stats for Landgraff:

    • #1: an official FIS piste, red, 369m length by 37m width, 6-person chairlift + tow lift;

    • #2: the longest indoor run in the Benelux, blue, 387m length by 28m width, 6-person chairlift + two ski tows;

    • #3: beginner slope, green, 55m length by 26m width, magic carpet;

    • #4: tubing and various group activities, blue, 45m length by 23m width, magic carpet;

    • Kinderland: a gentle practice slope suitable for the smallest children, green, 20m length, magic carpet;

    • Funpark [terrain park]: the biggest fun park in Europe, with rails, boxes and kickers, about 200m length.

never mind

You can’t buy a real turn on 160 verts of low angle.

Benny Profane wrote

Lindsey Vonn and Donna Weinbrecht on the first chair. They know PR.

Seems to be a lot of PR in this thread for some reason.

Anyhoo, I talked to a guy who went there and he said the whole thing is a boondoggle. He said it is poorly designed, poorly run, and it seems like the designers dropped the ball on simple things. He said they painted the outside of the roof black, for instance.

MC2 5678F589 wrote

Benny Profane wrote

Lindsey Vonn and Donna Weinbrecht on the first chair. They know PR.

Seems to be a lot of PR in this thread for some reason.

Anyhoo, I talked to a guy who went there and he said the whole thing is a boondoggle. He said it is poorly designed, poorly run, and it seems like the designers dropped the ball on simple things. He said they painted the outside of the roof black, for instance.

So my ORDA pass works there? Hahaha.

Just read a mini-TR by a NJ parent of a 6yo who experienced skiing for the first time at Big SNOW in the past week.  Worked out very well.  The parent is an intermediate who can't get away mid-week.  So being able to get the kid started indoors is worthwhile.  Since kids 6 and under is free with a paid adult, they bought the 6-pack for Slope Access for $99.

The closest parking lot is A (maybe the only one open?).  From RT 3W, following the sign to American Dream to the 2nd level mall door is straightforward apparently.  From there, it's a short walk to the escalator and the entrance to Big SNOW.  From RT 3E, the trick is to avoid accidentally ending up on the NJ Turnpike while driving around the mall.  There are signs to the A Lot, keep towards the left.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/27/arts/american-dream-mall-opening.html

Jason Blevins wrote up Big SNOW.  He interviewed Joe Hession, who is very clear why the process at Big SNOW is completely different from even a small hill that caters to beginners and intermediates.

The next American Dream in Miami is mentioned.  Apparently it will include another Big SNOW.  This time Snow Operating will be able to help with the design.  Unlike Big SNOW in NJ where they inherited whatever was built by the Xanadu developer.

https://coloradosun.com/2020/01/09/big-snow-new-jersey-ski-industry-indoor/

Here is a thoughtful and well-written article about one man's experience at the Big Snow. Spoiler: he was underwhelmed and has some deep thoughts about the place of malls in America today. And Gore Mountain gets a plug at the end...

The Dystopian Experience of Skiing in New Jersey’s ‘American Dream’ Mall

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9Uc_MpFpVk/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=embed_video_watch_again

Just your everyday brawl at your local indoor ski area

campgottagopee wrote

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9Uc_MpFpVk/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=embed_video_watch_again

Just your everyday brawl at your local indoor ski area

It was just a matter of time. NJ is the FL of the NE

Sick Bird Rider wrote

Here is a thoughtful and well-written article about one man's experience at the Big Snow. Spoiler: he was underwhelmed and has some deep thoughts about the place of malls in America today. And Gore Mountain gets a plug at the end...

The Dystopian Experience of Skiing in New Jersey’s ‘American Dream’ Mall

SBR, this is an awesome share.

Stuart Winchester on the Storm Skiing Journal Podcast just interviewed Big Snow's VP of marketing. Actually a great listen. Being a hardcore skier and NJ native I always had the most negative sentiments about Mountain Creek and subsequently Big Snow, but Stuart does a great job highlighting an alternative perspective. Definitely worth a listen:

Storm Skiing Podcast