Brant Lake

I was reading the blog on the front page today and was wondering who owns the trails in Brant Lake?

These are open to the public now?

The Hub which is a wine and beer bar/restaurant with  full service bike repair/parts is open from the beginning of May thru the end of October,it is located on 250+/-acres at the base of Bartonville Mt. Right now there are about 4miles of finished trail, it is easy to get a 7 mile ride in by doing them in both directions and they are a hoot either way. As T Batt's article says it is a 400+ foot climb in the first mile to get to the top. Well designed climb but not beginner friendly. The potential for more trail is extensive, more will be built over the years. And yes the trails are free and open to the public.                                                                                                    

THanks.  I figured it was The Hub, but I looked on the website and there was no mention of it.

This would be an awesome bit of convo to have in comments on the homepage, support your local blogger and all. Just sayin/

{smiley emoji here}

Sorry, I don't really know the blog comment etiquette.

I'd be interested to see how The Hub does as a business.

I've had the idea many times about opening a bar/restaurant at an old ski area and building it in to mountain bike trail center.  Possibly even running a lift on the weekends.  I've never run the numbers, but I was rather doubtful one could make the investment of building the trails pay off seen as how there is so much free stuff to ride.

Obviously those places didn't work out financially as ski resorts, but the bike season is much longer and requires less capital to run during the season.  Perhaps this is the new business model we will see pop up in small towns.

There isn't any etiquette, and if there is I'm in violation of it not you. People should be allowed to speak out however they wish. I was speaking out loud when I should have been muttering to myself.

:)

I'm also interested in those questions and how they are doing. I'm talking with the owners now about doing an interview. If you have questions you'd like to pose, drop them here and I'll try to incorporate them.

Highland is a example of a ski area that is 100% biking..From what I hear they are very successful..

https://www.highlandmountain.com/

Harvey wrote

There isn't any etiquette, and if there is I'm in violation of it not you. People should be allowed to speak out however they wish. I was speaking out loud when I should have been muttering to myself.

:)

I was actually serious.  I thought of posting a comment on the blog but I didn't know if my question would be answered and if it was appropriate to ask that question there.

Cunningstunts wrote

Harvey wrote

There isn't any etiquette, and if there is I'm in violation of it not you. People should be allowed to speak out however they wish. I was speaking out loud when I should have been muttering to myself.

:)

I was actually serious.  I thought of posting a comment on the blog but I didn't know if my question would be answered and if it was appropriate to ask that question there.

Well...

The reason this site exists is that I (and some others... ML, James, Peter, Brownski, Coach, etc) like to write. The currency, or how we get "paid" is thoughtful comments on the front page and in the magazine. It's frustrating to put a lot of effort into a piece and all the comments end up on facebook. Sometimes too someone will start a related thread in the forum and all the comments will end up here.  Not busting you for it, how would you know?

This forum will go away eventually (replaced by something on wordpress) and all that input will be gone.  Plus it's just great to have the input right under the piece. I can't really explain it.

The forum (and to some extent the directory) is an after thought. Many of the people here used to post on a forum called skiadk.com (don't go there now it's been hacked and will infect your computer). In 2010 it was abandoned by the owner and one member suggested that I start another forum here to take it's place.

This site was on "blogger" at the time. One night in 2010 I was having beers with another forum member and I googled "how to add a free forum to blogger" and found Nabble.  If I had any idea the forum would actually gain this many members and posts I would have gone for a more robust paid product that is easier to manage.  That is why I am trying to move it.

JasonWx wrote

Highland is a example of a ski area that is 100% biking..From what I hear they are very successful..

https://www.highlandmountain.com/

I know of Highland, and I've never been, but I thought perhaps that was more of a DH place.

That is cool, but The Hub seems different.  It's also not an old ski area to my knowledge, but besides that point i was thinking more of a place that's main business was the bar/restaurant and the trails were more of an attraction to bring people in.  That is to say they are free, but if you ran a lift on a weekend, you'd charge to ride.  

My idea is a bit of a hybrid between the two.  But I was still curious.

I'd also suspect the terrain you start to work with and proximity to population centers probably is a big factor.

That is  kind of a Kingdom Trails type place...

Your idea is a very good one.  The Adirondack Foothills Trails Alliance built mtn bike trails over the summer at McCauley Mtn in Old Forge.  Flow trails suitable for xc bikes.  

With Climate Change in full effect, mtn bike season is extending to 9 months in the northeast and probably within a decade - 10-11 months.  (Already there now w/fat bikes).  

Every ski hill, especially lower elevation locations, should be building  mtn biking into their business model.  Trails, food/beverage, onsite camping/lodging and live music is a winning ticket.

 

JasonWx wrote

That is  kind of a Kingdom Trails type place...

Yeah, even that's different, right?  You need to purchase a pass to ride.

I was also envisioning reviving an old ski area.  Do fatbiking in the winter and XC skiing.

I also bet if you let a local club build on your land, they would put in the trails.  At least around here.  We are so desperate for any land access, they'd jump all over that.

I actually think of this place as more of my model, although they started with skiing:

http://www.whitegrass.com/


There is a place down near me that has been abandoned since I graduated HS (it used to work as a ski resort then).  There have been plans and proposals to re-open it, but none have come through.  I'm wondering if they are thinking along the wrong lines.  Perhaps skiing should be secondary and biking primary.

The cool thing about that place is there is a pretty nice trail network right across the valley on the other hill.  You'd have to work out an access plan with one of the land owners to make a trail connector because it is (private) land-locked as it is now, but if you could, you'd have instant access to 10 more miles of trail that are already built not to mention there is a campground there.

Also Bristol mountain is right up the road, and I can't see competing with them for skiing.  They have 100% snowmaking, high speed lifts and way more vert.

Cunningstunts wrote

JasonWx wrote

That is  kind of a Kingdom Trails type place...

Yeah, even that's different, right?  You need to purchase a pass to ride

Yes.  Kingdom trails are pay to ride.  But you need to frame this differently. Its not pay to ride, its pay to sustain and expand trail system.  Push season passes that include lodging and discounts on food/bev and VIP type perks for the live events

ScottyJack wrote

Cunningstunts wrote

JasonWx wrote

That is  kind of a Kingdom Trails type place...

Yeah, even that's different, right?  You need to purchase a pass to ride

Yes.  Kingdom trails are pay to ride.  But you need to frame this differently. Its not pay to ride, its pay to sustain and expand trail system.  Push season passes that include lodging and discounts on food/bev and VIP type perks for the live events

No I get that.  I'm just wondering if you could make it work financially with "free to ride" trails.  You pay if you want to ride a lift when that's running.

Having a bike shop there is a good idea, or at least a mechanic, some rentals or demos (perhaps work it out with another LBS to provide bikes - helps them sell bikes) and some essential parts to keep people riding.

Seeing more shared “worker space”  buisness models starting up like you are describing inside the Adirondack Park. Jade Mountain LLC in Westport, The Hub in Brant Lake, The Hub on the Hill in Essex.  

The bringing together of businesses that have similar traits/goals to establish synergy and momentum to grow into profitable enterprises together and ultimately individually.  

I see potential in this type of business model.  

I do think people would pay for trail access even non lift serve access and you need that revune stream to be profitable.

Kingdom charges 15$
People are happy to pay that , knowing it goes to maintaining and creating great trails..

Yeah, I'm not sure about liability, so you may have to charge just to cover that.

The ideal location would adjoin public land that was approved for trail building so you could have a really sweet, and large XC network i.e. an IMBA epic.

SJ, I think you are definitely right about flow trail though.  I think you'd want one or two flow/jump lines of different difficulty and some tech lines as well.  Then fill in with a lot of XC type trails of different difficulty.

I wonder if a LBS has ever though of investing in something like this.  It could be really excellent for expanding riding and for them selling and servicing bikes.  I might pitch the idea.