Christmas holidays, intermediates, where to go?

Coach Z wrote

snoloco wrote

I have introduced two of my friends to big mountain skiing at Windham

Huh?  

When did a big mountain get defined as something only slightly bigger than mole hills in NJ?

To someone who has only skied at Mount Peter with less than 300 vertical (they exaggerate it to 400 to report the same as Tuxedo Ridge) and about 50 acres, I would think that Windham would seem pretty big.  Windham has over 3x the vertical and 5x the acreage.  These people have only been to Massanutten which looks only slighy bigger than Mount Peter, so it would be a step up, but not overwhelmingly huge like Gore.  The side at Gore they'd most want to ski might not even open for Christmas, but I would think that Windham would have all their major sections open.

I did the double take on this too.

"Big mountain skiing" is a phrase with a lot of implied meaning that phrases like "skiing a big mountain" don't have.

I think we all knew what he meant.

Agree with Harv here, we know what Snoloco meant.        I can still recall my first real ski trip to Blue Knob +- 1k vert.    Heretofore, we walked up hills. This was big mountain skiing; the kind of skiing depicted on the maticously cut photos from Ski which were taped to my school locker.      Next step was Killington, I was 23 yo.   WOW--big mountain, felt I could get stuck at the end of the day, I hung with my pals so as to not get lost.     Next major step was Verbier, Swis------BIG MOUNTAIN,  34 yr old, wrong turn and your dead, they don't look for you and  may or may not find you in the spring thaw.  

Each step humbled me.  The mountain always wins.

Hope the big mountains of NY hold the same memories for this new class of sliders.

It is all about perspective.   For those who have grown up around LP and Gore, you all live these mountains.   They are a new language to many, if not most of the population. We see them from a distance and dream, but reality hits when you walk, touch and experience them up close.     This came to me one day as I began a hike up Echo with my 35# daughter in a hiking pack and my 6 yro son as lead.    "It's easy" we thought viewing it at the bottom.     However every step was burdensome, "wow, this is a big mountain" my son says.     Yes, yes it is, cried my thighs.    




   

Gunny J wrote

   
http://www.onthesnow.com/new-jersey/mountain-creek-resort/reviews-b.html?review_id=649
This place was lousy every time I went there

uh oh ,harv better break this out to the snoloco sub-forum to save our sanity

How about some snowmaking and an opening at WF.  I have the sense we need to ski again really soon.

Use this for now:

http://forum.nyskiblog.com/Mountain-Creek-Conditions-td4032517.html

Harvey wrote

I did the double take on this too.

"Big mountain skiing" is a phrase with a lot of implied meaning that phrases like "skiing a big mountain" don't have.

I think we all knew what he meant.

Fer sure, it's all relative.

I remember going from Greek Peak to Smuggs (i used to think the Olympian was "steep") - WOW!!! What an eye opener that was. From Smuggs to Hells Brook off of Mansfield, that scared me. From there it was on to Tux --- that place just made me want to puke. I WILL NEVER FORGET THE FIRST TIME STARING DOWN THAT HEADWALL. It made me dizzy

I:)skiing wrote

Agree with Harv here, we know what Snoloco meant.        I can still recall my first real ski trip to Blue Knob +- 1k vert.    Heretofore, we walked up hills. This was big mountain skiing; the kind of skiing depicted on the maticously cut photos from Ski which were taped to my school locker.      Next step was Killington, I was 23 yo.   WOW--big mountain, felt I could get stuck at the end of the day, I hung with my pals so as to not get lost.     Next major step was Verbier, Swis------BIG MOUNTAIN,  34 yr old, wrong turn and your dead, they don't look for you and  may or may not find you in the spring thaw.  

Each step humbled me.  The mountain always wins.

Hope the big mountains of NY hold the same memories for this new class of sliders.

It is all about perspective.   For those who have grown up around LP and Gore, you all live these mountains.   They are a new language to many, if not most of the population. We see them from a distance and dream, but reality hits when you walk, touch and experience them up close.     This came to me one day as I began a hike up Echo with my 35# daughter in a hiking pack and my 6 yro son as lead.    "It's easy" we thought viewing it at the bottom.     However every step was burdensome, "wow, this is a big mountain" my son says.     Yes, yes it is, cried my thighs.

The reverse is worse in some ways.  I learned to ski long ago at the school hill at North Country School, a boarding school just across from the Mt Van Hoevenberg Olympic Sports Complex, and at Whiteface.  Plus a week at Alta in 8th grade during spring break at the invitation of a classmate.  After moving to NC in high school, I had no interest in trying out any ski area within driving distance.  That meant I didn't ski at all for ten years.

I think Windham is a better fit in some ways for my friend, except that she hates any sort of crowd.  She normally skis at Massanutten on Sunday afternoons.  Mnut is a timeshare resort.  There are few people on the slopes after lunch on a non-holiday Sunday.  She learned at Bryce, which is even smaller than Mnut.

As an aside, the reason I chose Mnut as my home mountain (4 hour drive from central NC) is that it has 1100 vert, more than any place in PA.  More importantly, there is about 850 vert off Lift 6 at the top of the mountain.  Since there are so few advanced skiers, there is never a lift line even on holiday weekends.  I'm mostly at Mnut on weekends with my daughter and other families who have kids in school.

Do you make it West Virginia at all? It seems like Timberline gets a lot more snow than the NC resorts across the length of the season. It's only about a thousand vert as well but they have nice glades and a really local vibe.

marznc wrote

I think Windham is a better fit in some ways for my friend, except that she hates any sort of crowd.  She normally skis at Massanutten on Sunday afternoons.  Mnut is a timeshare resort.  There are few people on the slopes after lunch on a non-holiday Sunday.  She learned at Bryce, which is even smaller than Mnut.

The longest line at Windham is for the main HSQ.  I have never seen it exceed 15 minutes and is usually less than 10.  There is a triple chair right next to it, but it is never faster to take that than the HSQ no matter how long the line is.  The C-Lift serves Wonderama which is a great run for lower intermediates and its line is never more than a couple minutes.  Only on the busiest days do they have to get everyone into groups of 3 (it's a triple).  The East Peak Express is usually no more than 5 minutes and only on the busiest days is it that long.  Usually they are just needing to get people into 4's to ride it.

Windham has great grooming, but certain sections can be icy toward the end of the day.  The upper section on Whistler is the worst as well as World Cup.

After lunch, a lot of the crowds thin out as the early arrivers tend to leave.  Windham opens pretty early at 8am the entire week (Christmas day they open at 9).  If you get there at that time, you will have tons of perfectly groomed cruisers all to yourself.  The ski school starts at 9 and usually crowds out the HSQ and main base, so go to East Peak or the C-Lift at that time.  

Another thing I would suggest your friends do is to ski on Christmas Day itself.  It is never crowded anywhere that day.  I was at Mountain Creek last year on Christmas Day and skied onto the lifts all day.  I would assume that other areas would be similar.

ml242 wrote

Do you make it West Virginia at all? It seems like Timberline gets a lot more snow than the NC resorts across the length of the season. It's only about a thousand vert as well but they have nice glades and a really local vibe.

Haven't been to Timberline or Canaan Valley yet.  Have plans to go with a friend in early Jan.  We'll be starting from Mnut so only 2-3 hours drive.  We'll stay overnight and check out both places.

From my house near Raleigh, driving to northern WV would take something like 7 hours, assuming no snow on the roads in WV.  To get to Snowshoe is 6 solid hours with no stops, including almost two hours of 2-lane road in WV.  Done that enough to know the terrain isn't worth it.  Much rather fly out west.  I'm retired and have the luxury of being able to get out west at least twice for trips that are 10-15 days each.  Usually fly Southwest and can extend trips to catch storms.

Mass-of-noth'n, haven't been there in almost 20 years, I use to go there from DC when I lived there as a beltway bandit - that and Wintergreen. Went to Bryce a few times. I agree, snow shoe was never worth it, Timberline is really cool.

PeeTex wrote

Mass-of-noth'n, haven't been there in almost 20 years, I use to go there from DC when I lived there as a beltway bandit - that and Wintergreen. Went to Bryce a few times. I agree, snow shoe was never worth it, Timberline is really cool.

Did you ski at Massanutten after Lift 6 to the peak was installed?  That's what makes it a pretty decent hill for the southeast, especially for a mixed ability group.  Especially because all trails are lit for night skiing.  The Highlands (all blacks) at Wintergreen are nice, but close at 3:45 because there are no lights.

Although the lodge is about the same, there have been a lot of improvements at Massanutten in the last 10 years.  Once Great Eastern finished the waterpark (indoor/outdoor) and golf course improvements, they started putting some serious capital into snowsports.  Two original double chairs from the 1970s were replaced completely.  Reworked the teaching area and added a second magic carpet, reworked the top of the harder green, moved the smaller park run to add another short green, added conveyor loading to the lift that beginners take for the long green and advanced skiers take to get to Lift 6 at the top of the mountain.  They are building a new building for the ski school, which will free up space on the first floor of the main lodge for more seating and food service.

I lucked out because we checked out Mnut just before the waterpark construction began.  It was a good time to buy a timeshare week there.  Timeshare ownership is not a good deal for most people, but it has worked well for my husband because he got into it early on, well before I met him.  My daughter started skiing in 2005, just in time to be able to take advantage of the waterpark and the snowsports improvements.  What I like is that the folks managing snowsports are all locals who have been working at Mnut for quite a while.

If you are referring to the old slow quad that served Diamond Jim, I think that lift must have been put in 25 years ago, I recall skiing it in the early 90s.

PeeTex wrote

If you are referring to the old slow quad that served Diamond Jim, I think that lift must have been put in 25 years ago, I recall skiing it in the early 90s.

Yep, that's Lift 6.  What they did a couple years ago was widen DJ at the bottom in order to have a NASTAR course open  most weekends and still leave enough room on the other side.

I found out last year that the guy who bought the Lake Placid Club and turned the property into a timeshare property built the first timeshare units at Massanutten.  The Lake Placid Club units look like Mountainside Villas, the only group that was not sold to Great Eastern.  Pretty unique because they not only have a hot tub, but also a private sauna in each 2-story unit.  The furniture at LPC was made in the little town of Elkton, up the road from Mnut.  The developer went bankrupt because of the 1980 recession that stalled timeshare sales for a while.

I assume DJ and Paradice (used to be written ParaDice) were named for the founders of Great Eastern, C. Dice Hammer and Jim Lambert.

Oh yeah, they renamed a few trails a while back.  No more Rebel Yell or Dixie Dare.

Rodol23 wrote

Great article! Thanks for the recommendations for best ski places. This year we are also planning to host a family holiday party at outdoor venue. I think Mountain Creek is the best place for ski themed holiday parties. Isn’t it?

Oh Yea Mountain Creek is a spectacular mountain.  Especially void of large crowds and feces in the cabrio cars.

Powderchaser wrote

Rodol23 wrote

Great article! Thanks for the recommendations for best ski places. This year we are also planning to host a family holiday party at outdoor venue. I think Mountain Creek is the best place for ski themed holiday parties. Isn’t it?

Oh Yea Mountain Creek is a spectacular mountain.  Especially void of large crowds and feces in the cabrio cars.

Who in the hell shits in a cabrio car?

Heard a story of it happening last year.