Climate Change: The End of NY's Ski Industry?

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Just like it meant the end of California's last year. Oh, wait.

Benny Profane wrote

Just like it meant the end of California's last year. Oh, wait.

Precisely. Very sad to see this season being used to beat the drum of climate change.

Not sad because I am a skeptic (I am not) but sad because that is false logic that plays into skeptical arguments and sad because it is a very unscientific way to think about the issue. What happened this season may have had a small part to do with climate change but mostly had to do with a massive el nino. Next year could be a banner year, who knows.

Last year, the northeast had the best skiing in the country for much of the season. It was INSANELY cold. Skeptics said "Climate Change WHAT?" and they looked like idiots for doing so as global averages set records. It was an isolated data point from a specific region which you cannot use to extrapolate long term global changes. Same for this season.

I am ALL FOR this type of discussion. But that was a disappointing presentation. Don't look at THIS winter... think about winters in 30 years. I think "will my share of MRG be worth the paper it is printed on in 30 years?" Honestly, I don't know. Based on projections and recent history and the data, I am skeptical that MRG will still be spinning lifts when I am too old to ski. The future is what should be the focus, not the current season. Focusing on now instead of the future is the heart of the problem.

Ticks are my main concern this year. Tick born illnesses including Lyme disease are no joke. I've got grandparents in East Greenbush, (not far from Clifton Park) and its bad news for them this summer. Actually, it's already bad. Especially in the Hudson Valley.
In fact, I saw one crawling across my computer just an hour ago. Non-skiers are downright giddy about this past winter, but they are going to pay for it now with these blood sucking rodents that carry life threatening disease like Babesiosis. Last year my Grandpa almost died of Babesiosis, and the likelihood of getting a tick is only higher this year. If we keep having winters like this, we are going to have ticks the size of chickens.

http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2012/09/07/disease-spreading-ticks-on-the-move-as-climate-changes/

I was in Troy Christmas eve. It was 72 degrees. My Aunt who lives there said it was 76 last Wednesday.

Ethan Snow wrote

 If we keep having winters like this, we are going to have ticks the size of chickens.

A cold snowy winter doesn't necessarily mean less ticks. Lots of snow prevents the cold from having much effect. Extreme variability may be more effective

http://www.caryinstitute.org/newsroom/lyme-disease-freezes-may-reduce-ticks

long periods of cold are more effective than significantly above average temps. Ticks can survive short periods of cold.

I agree. Bullshit

riverc0il wrote

Very sad to see this season being used to beat the drum of climate change.

Not sad because I am a skeptic (I am not) but sad because that is false logic that plays into skeptical arguments and sad because it is a very unscientific way to think about the issue. What happened this season may have had a small part to do with climate change but mostly had to do with a massive el nino. Next year could be a banner year, who knows.

I agree with this^^, but I don't think the point of the video was to make the case that the poor winter of 2015-16 was caused by global climate change, or that the poor winter of 2015-16 equates to hard evidence that climate change is real.  To me, the message was get used to winters like this, because this winter is an illustration of what winter's may increasingly look like in coming decades.

riverc0il wrote

Last year, the northeast had the best skiing in the country for much of the season. It was INSANELY cold.

It may surprise you that last winter was not INSANELY cold.  At best it was overall average.  November and December were quite warm.  We had an unusually long stretch of colder than normal temps from late Jan through Feb, but on balance it was merely a "normal" winter.

And if ski areas upgraded their snowmaking more, winters like this wouldn't even matter.  Hunter did great this year.

snoloco wrote

And if ski areas upgraded their snowmaking more, winters like this wouldn't even matter.  Hunter did great this year.

You just can't resist can you?

Benny Profane wrote

Just like it meant the end of California's last year. Oh, wait.

Or the Cascades?  Last year in February at 6,000 feet it was grassy knolls instead of powder filled bowls.  This year they are pushing 500 inches of YTD snowfall and a 4 foot base.  With La Niña on tap for next year it should be more.

Yes, climate change is a real thing, and needs to be dealt with, but not everything is the result of climate change.  Weather is, and always has been, cyclical.  Last year, remember, was a pretty good year here in the east. I had more than a half dozen days in the Slides.  This year, zero in a crappy year, but that change doesn't represent a sudden end to skiing....

We are seeing variations in weather.  This NE winter is but one data point out of thousands.

Adk Jeff wrote

riverc0il wrote

Very sad to see this season being used to beat the drum of climate change.

Not sad because I am a skeptic (I am not) but sad because that is false logic that plays into skeptical arguments and sad because it is a very unscientific way to think about the issue. What happened this season may have had a small part to do with climate change but mostly had to do with a massive el nino. Next year could be a banner year, who knows.

I agree with this^^, but I don't think the point of the video was to make the case that the poor winter of 2015-16 was caused by global climate change, or that the poor winter of 2015-16 equates to hard evidence that climate change is real.  To me, the message was get used to winters like this, because this winter is an illustration of what winter's may increasingly look like in coming decades.

riverc0il wrote

Last year, the northeast had the best skiing in the country for much of the season. It was INSANELY cold.

It may surprise you that last winter was not INSANELY cold.  At best it was overall average.  November and December were quite warm.  We had an unusually long stretch of colder than normal temps from late Jan through Feb, but on balance it was merely a "normal" winter.

Ask anyone that lives in the LP area.  Last winter was the coldest anyone can recall.  The overnight lows were below zero all the way thru March which is very unusual.

Coach Z wrote

 

Ask anyone that lives in the LP area.  Last winter was the coldest anyone can recall.  The overnight lows were below zero all the way thru March which is very unusual.

Ask anyone who lives in Virgil. My neighbor has lived here for over 40 years and it was the coldest one he can ever remember.

More snow making.  That the only answer.

To all you climate change deniers:

1. I am well aware of the distinction between "weather" and "climate."

2. I am not making the assertion that this winter's weather was caused by climate change or is proof that climate change is real.  I agree that this winter's shit weather is a reflection of a "weather" phenomenon:  El F'ing Nino.

3. I agree with the video that winters will increasingly resemble this winter in coming decades, putting at risk the jobs that depend on winter recreation and the existence of businesses - including ski areas - that depend on cold and snow.  That's why I called the video "compelling" - I relate to local NY skiing more directly than to images of polar bears stranded on melting arctic ice sheets or images of flooding at the Jersey shore.

You can all put your heads back in the sand now!

Not buying, selling or leasing.  My only comment goes to politicians, writers, directors etc. who address one side of an issue without commenting or addressing the possible other side.  

As I viewed this video, the plot was to address the economic loss to the NY region.      Subplot was loss of fun due to winter sports being lost.    

Assume all ski areas close due to global warming and there is no longer snow, or at least enough snow to support a ski area.     That leaves a hole, which will likely be filled by another  business that is similarly profitable or perhaps even more profitable.  Maybe not at the ski areas but in the now warmer NY region.  Roller blading, Maybe farmers get an extra crop.   Mountain biking becomes a 365 sport.  A new sport emerges.   Fly fishing, growing pot or home gardening.  Maybe a bike trail from Gore to Lake Placid, rafting.  

Significantly more people come out in the off 3 seasons that in winter.    So any change in sport will have significantly more potential participants.    

Yes, I like skiing and if GW closes NY mountains, that will suck for me.   But for many others in NY, I see them welcoming warmer temps.    Maybe not as may NY'ers would end up wintering in FLA.     Love to hear the AGWs bitch about GW as they fly south to get warm.      Upstate NY will be a great place to live if all the predictions come true.   It will be the North Carolina of the future.      

I've believed for a while now that snow will be extinct below 6000 feet in my lifetime.  

Taking advantage of the now is how you positively impact the future.  Nice job on the video.
 
Last year the only place on the planet that was normal cold was the northeast.  Strong science is out there that links the melting ice pack to our north as a factor.  Big pool of cold water sitting in the North Atlantic...

as far as coldest winter in a long time you people have short memories.  my first winter in the adirondacks was 13 ago. it was brutal cold.  temps didnt get above 0F for 15 straight days.  

I:)skiing wrote

Upstate NY will be a great place to live if all the predictions come true.   It will be the North Carolina of the future.

That is an absolutely horrible vision of the future.

Adk Jeff wrote

I:)skiing wrote

Upstate NY will be a great place to live if all the predictions come true.   It will be the North Carolina of the future.

That is an absolutely horrible vision of the future.

maybe but it's a real possibility.  

I think we disagree on more than just the need for a HSQ on a 600' hill.