Development at Gore Mtn.

They tried to sell $800k ski in ski out condos at Gore Ski bowl called "TopRidge'  and it did not work.  Evidently there are not enough people who want to poney up that sort of money.  Why is it that every develpment project entails littering the mountain with houses so people can simply ski out of there condo.  Maybe the approach should change:  instead of selling ski condos in advance at Gore, why does the town of NorthCreek remake itself into the sort of place one would really love to goto for apres ski and stay at, due to its appeal as an "alpine"  experience.  Instead of  staying in mountainside condos, would it not be sort of cool to stay in an apartment or condo in a ski village that had bars and restaurants--- that looked like something in Austria.  I know this is what Vail has done.  Magic tried it to some extent.  None of those places had an existing real town that could easily be renovated.  It  makes sense, ownership of a ski condo or apartment that is condensed should be less costly then a sprawled out condoplexs.  What I am saying is I think NorthCreek needs to become a grander place to really get people to want to turn left when they exit the mountain.

Interesting concept. I think there has been some of this in the works - someone, maybe Harv posted a whole plan of how downtown will look once they install the gondola from the ski bowl into downtown. Seriously though a master plan with some sort of incentives would be great. There is a large tract of land next to the copperfield (5 acres) that has been for sale for a long time. It would make sense to focus development in town - I think it would make things more sustainable year round. There are some houses in town for sale that need a little fixing up. You could certainly buy one and fix it up for less than 800K. I think the new topridge townhouses have actually been selling (albeit slowly). Not sure of the pricing but they are not 800k. The frontstreet project has not been progressing so much. I think the overall second home market is depressed everywhere. There are multiple places to stay in NC that are very nice - Copperfield, Alpine and multiple houses. It would be great to have some more choices in town, but I can walk to bar vino, barking spider, and trappers as well as grocery and other shops - don't forget Sarah's! The wife and I go out more when we are up there than when we are at home. The change we've seen in 6 years has been pretty phenomenal. Some downs (like losing Laura's and Common Roots) but mostly ups.

Gondola...from the Ski Bowl to NC ?

Whoever started that rumor must be having a good laugh.

Everybody knows the Gondi from Face to Placid will take precedent.

Because ski in/out condos are very rentable, therefore justifying a certain cost.

Anyway, North Creek is slow to development because all of the wealthy people are waiting for Tupper to be developed.

Danzilla wrote

 I think the new topridge townhouses have actually been selling (albeit slowly).  Not sure of the pricing but they are not 800k.  

We have a place at Topridge and definitely didn't pay 800K - not even half that. They have sold 9 out of the 14 units, but sales have been really slow in the last year and a half.  We think that they could have sold a lot more by now if there was better marketing.  There is definitely an appeal to being right in town, but i like being away from the road noise and people, and we have a great view too.  North Creek is only 5 minutes down the road, and we go there all the time.

I don't really see the appeal of the Front Street development. They have no views and will almost never be ski-in ski-out, even in a good snow year.

Snowballs - I dug up this old map.  Not sure how far back it goes.  Notice the Train Station Gondola (Alternative).  Yes I have heard people seriously discuss this lift - you know when North Creek turns into Breckenridge.

Interestingly this also shows another lift going to top of BR.  Doesn't seem like that is needed anymore.

They would have to blow a TON of snow to make the Frontstreet stuff ski-in ski-out.

http://www.snowjournal.com/images/gallery_snowjournal/42e0406890d83.jpg

It was killing me that I couldn't find this.  Finally dug it up from an old post over on skiadk.

http://www.firstwilderness.com/masterplan.php

Click on North Creek and you will see notes for the gondola from downtown to NC.  Minus that silliness the renderings look pretty cool.  

Yea I know some have laid that egg, but it's just pie in the sky.....will never happen. They can put whatever they want on paper as long as that paper holds still.

We went round and round about this at skiadk. While I appreciate people's enthusiasm, I stand by my thoughts of years ago.....Ski Bowl doesn't/won't bring people downtown, Ski Bowl village is hardly ski in/ski out hence it will have a very hard time flying. I don't think the SB Village will get built according to their plans.
 
The Ski Bowl is hardly even be able to stay open let alone thrive, even with last year's good snow.

Sad.

Yeah Benny has it figured out, actually he is a little off. That Cricklear guy might just as well fold up now and cut his losses, Front Street is doomed now that the ACR has its' APA permit. I've heard there are hoards of rich people driving Land Rovers and Porsche SUVs roaming all over Tupper Lake with hundred dollar bills flying out the windows looking to get in on the ground floor of the ACR. They of course are willing to drive much further from major metro areas on the promise of developing a much smaller mountain,(no snowmaking for several yrs) paying way more money for overlogged lots( no wait, I mean pristine wilderness lots) by developers with no investors or money and don't pay their property, school and income taxes. Yeah thats the ticket.

The poster that started this thread confused the Topridge Lodges with Ski bowl village.  They are in no means equivalent.  Topridge townhomes sell for almost half the price of Ski Bowl Village units.  They offer great views and are very well made with custom woodwork.  They sell for a fair price, and the developer is a local, not a carpetbagger.   He genuinely cares that the homeowners are happy.  Ski in/out they are not.  But neither is the bowl.  I doubt it ever will be.
That said, IMO, if any new development has a chance of succeeding in the North Creek area it is Topridge.  Topridge is already financially self sufficient for the home owners association even if no further units sold.  I'm an owner BTW, not a real estate agent.

I am sorry for picking on Top RIdge I meant no harm to the owners, builder or potential buyers.  I think the homes look great and I wish the owner all the success in the world.   Heck, if had more dough these days would love to purchase a unit.  MIght even join  the club if they ever build it.  

 I guess my real point is not to say that ski  on ski off is so bad.  I just think that Gore has so much potential to something more then what I see now.    I just think that the lodging should be in the town not sprawled around the landscape as it is now the norm on the other side of the Hudson.  

I posted an artists Reddition of a drawing of the NC train station gondi.    I will try to find the photo again. It was funny.     I agree a town village of condos would be better and more fun for the town.    I have two friends who are trying to plan ski trips to gore from Baltimore/Washington. The people Def want to stay in town and its easier for grip leaders.   Get group from airport to downtown and let them walk and ride shuttle around town and to ski respectively.

Thanks Danzilla, that is a great link.

Hi Goreskimom,
I just dug up the old link.  Thank I:) Skiing who was the original poster over on skiadk.  Those are some pretty cool plans for downtown.  I just wonder if anyone ever did anything with these or if it was just grant money that got spent and forgotten.  

There certainly has been quite bit of sprucing up around downtown.  The new mosaic across from Sarah's is really cool. If you haven't seen it yet check it out:

http://katehartleyart.com/

I do think the OP mixed up Frontstreet and Topridge.  FYI Fronstreet is the group developing the ski-in ski-out condos/homes/hotels on the property next to the ski bowl.  Topridge is a condo development off peaceful valley road/durkin road that you can see from the mountain.  It is not ski-in ski-out.  I have heard good things around town about the topridge developer and those places look really nice from the outside.  Not your typical ski condo/townhouses.

sirskier wrote

Why is it that every develpment project entails littering the mountain with houses so people can simply ski out of there condo.  Maybe the approach should change:  instead of selling ski condos in advance at Gore, why does the town of NorthCreek remake itself into the sort of place one would really love to goto for apres ski and stay at, due to its appeal as an "alpine"  experience.  Instead of  staying in mountainside condos, would it not be sort of cool to stay in an apartment or condo in a ski village that had bars and restaurants.

Sir Skier, I think the fundamental concept you describe is exactly what NC should pursue.  I certainly understand why ski-in-out is appealing, but the reality of NYS ownership of the land surrounding Gore makes that impossible with very limited exceptions (Front Street development at Ski Bowl).  Instead, the town should capitalize on what it already has: a "real" village that is still quite close to the base of the ski area.  Why strive for yet another manufactured faux European architecture slopeside "village" when an authentic Adirondack village already exists?  NC should capitalize on its existing attributes (the river, the successful tourist RR, proximity to the mountain, an authentic Main St with independent businesses) to differentiate itself from the look-alike faux villages that already exist at ski resorts all over the Northeast i.e. Okemo, Stratton, Tremblant, etc.

Of course it's much easier said than done.  The reality of multiple private owners and multiple govt entities makes it very difficult  - you can't simply just come in and "transform" NC Main Street overnight.  But with the right community vision and planning, perhaps a successful "anchor" project or two, some assistance from NYS/ORDA, the right kind of marketing, and (most importantly) some cooperation from the economy, the village of NC could be an appealling destination that is very different from competing destinations.  I'd love to see that become a reality for NC.

The business owners in town have really come together to do some great things over the past few years.  Surprisingly (to me and many others) I think the train in the summer/fall is really going to help the town prosper.  Hopefully they can keep the same kind of attendance and continue expanding things like the beer festival and the concerts on the river.  The train is depositing people on main street the way the shuttle and signs along RT28 haven't in the past (in any numbers).  There really are great shops and restaurants in town ALREADY.  Its not the scale of lake placid or some other places, but there are some really neat shops in town with unique items.  If you check them out you might come across a cool shirt like this:



Best way to help out North Creek is to stop in and spend some $$ before you head back down rt28.  OR better yet stay in town for a few days.

Boy - well said Jeff and Danzilla.  That mural is awesome.

Call me crazy but I love that artists rendering of downtown NC in that link.  It's probably way more energy efficient in the long run to use a lift to move people from town to mountain, vs all those cars.  I realize that's a dreamers longshot, but it still is fun to think about.

Danzilla wrote

Best way to help out North Creek is to stop in and spend some $$ before you head back down rt28.  OR better yet stay in town for a few days.

I couldn't agree more.  

BTW, no worries SirSkier.  

It would be very hard to build anything new on Main St in North Creek because there is a need for sewage facilities. Front St is building a sewage treatment facility for the slopeside they plan to build. Adding slopeside to the Ski Bowl is a huge benefit for NC and Gore. NC gets to collect much needed property taxes and Gore gets to increase its base of beds and by extension its skier visits. Local business will benefit from more overnight visitors.

If Front St can add retail and food and beverage, there would be more visitor traffic and the base of the Ski Bowl could become an important access point to the mountain. Enough visitors coming out of the Ski Bowl will justify blowing the snow to access the main area of Gore. Gore is now visable from Rt 28 and having this access point also will increase traffic to the area.  
 
Try slopeside at a ski area. If you have kids it makes life easy. No dealing with the car, packing lunch, or the "I forgot my...". Lunch becomes a relaxing point of the day. If there is snow or rain you can take all the wet stuff and throw it in the dryer. It is truly an easier way to ski.

If Topridge and Front St (and any other developments) are built out, Gore will be able to increase its skier visits. Just an average increase of 500 skiers over 100 days will bring in millions of additional dollars in revenue. This should allow Gore to do proper upgrades (Adirondack Express installed in 1984) and additions (another place on the mountain for food and bathrooms). It would also allow Gore to open up more of the mountain midweek.

x10003q wrote

 Just an average increase of 500 skiers over 100 days will bring in millions of additional dollars in revenue.

 Just?