Did Gore and WF use their money wisely ?

Darkside Shaman wrote

If we all had a crystal ball life would be great

Or ten million bucks.

CONTENTS DELETED

Just saw a lone snowboarder on the whiteface webcam...that coverage is really depressing coming from how it looked a few days ago. There's nothing left!

70s Gore Kid wrote

Does anyone recall another recent winter where a whole Novembers worth of snowmaking was essentially wiped out by December 1st?

I am thinking back to 1980, the winter that wasnt.

I think it was 1993, the mother of all January thaws, so, a little later in the cycle, but, still, a real disaster. Fortunately I scheduled a two week trip to Utah at the time, and called back to my share house and heard about a barbecue on the back deck in 60 degree temps. There were two trails hardly open at Killington.

70s Gore Kid wrote

Figure it costs a mountain about $5,000 in electricity costs for a full night of snowmaking. Have heard that figure from several sources.  (Does anyone have any better figures?)

$5 thou is too low, I'd guess the real figure for Gore / WF is triple that.  Here's a wild-ass approximation:

 - ORDA spent $4.7 million last year across all venues on fuel & utilities.  That includes electricity, diesel and gasoline for snowmaking, lifts, grooming, heat & lights, etc.
 - I'm guessing that $4.7 divides up as roughly 1/3 to Gore, 1/3 to WF, 1/3 to the other venues.
 - I'm further guessing that Gore's $1.6 million splits out to be approximately $1 million for snowmaking and the remainder for lifts, grooming, heat & lights.  
 - I don't know how many days of snowmaking operations Gore & WF each had last winter, but it's certainly less than 100.  Probably somewhere between 60-70.  According to ORDA's annual report, WF's last day of snowmaking operations last winter was Feb 1, so 60-70 seems reasonable.
 - Divide the 60-70 days into $1 million and you're in the neighborhood of $15K per day.

Like I said, it's a wild-ass guess, but I bet I'm not too far off.  The 5 nights that Gore made snow leading up to Thanksgiving probably cost something less than the full $15K per day.

Even at that cost level, IMO opening for the Thanksgiving weekend was the right decision.

if killington or any other private ski area wants waste money , that's their prerogative. But when the public areas start playing loosey goosey with my(ny state tax payers ) money , something needs to be said. I realize that they are dealing with the weather , which is unpredictable. But this past hot spell was a lock. All they need to do was make a phone call to NWS..

you gotta admit it was thought provoking and controversial question..

Nothing else to do till it starts dumping:)

Wasn't there a huge thaw within the past few years where chrismas was brown at Gore.   I recall seeing embarrassing pictures of sunway.

It's going to be a good winter, just have some patience.  The money wasted at Gore/WF snowmaking is loose change to the money wasted in Albany, and NYC.

There have been a couple of Thanksgiving weeks of snowmaking washed away the day before opening. I can only recall one Christmas that was a total washout. It was in the 90's. I hit the road to go visit, got stopped speeding in Hamilton County and the deputy. It me a break because it was Christmas and it was raining.

Chris wrote

Wasn't there a huge thaw within the past few years where chrismas was brown at Gore.   I recall seeing embarrassing pictures of sunway.

I seem to remember that too. I recall skiing Lower Valley at Whiteface with my kids, and having to ski on narrow "catwalks" of snow that connected the larger areas of coverage. That was definitely in December, some time in the last 4 or 5 years, I just can't remember what year.

Face4Me wrote

Chris wrote

Wasn't there a huge thaw within the past few years where chrismas was brown at Gore.   I recall seeing embarrassing pictures of sunway.

I seem to remember that too. I recall skiing Lower Valley at Whiteface with my kids, and having to ski on narrow "catwalks" of snow that connected the larger areas of coverage. That was definitely in December, some time in the last 4 or 5 years, I just can't remember what year.

it was 2007 - WF was down to a 3 foot wide strip of snow just below tower 10 hill on valley in January.  Then it snowed 2 feet on valentines day and didn't stop snowing until April

2007 was one hell of a year, with no really good skiing before valentines day.

Hey Jason if you were gm at Gore would you blow the next four nights and open on Saturday?

(via mobile)

Either way it looks like they're going for it according to their facebook update! I'd say it would be worth it to open this weekend..looks like other than one day of rain next week, the weather should be OK for snowmaking most nights..

Anybody know how much tickets were this past weekend at Gore? Whiteface?

Harvey44 wrote

Anybody know how much tickets were this past weekend at Gore? Whiteface?

The food pantry promo brought it down to $32 with 2 cans at Gore.

A few pictures from New Year's weekend last year as a reminder that a slow start can turn into an epic season.  This time of year I always forget that anything in the Northeast prior to January is a bonus.

I personally tend to think that snowmaking this early is a little crazy and wasteful; I'd rather wait a couple weeks and then see it go full force and unabated.  But, maybe that's just because I wasn't out last weekend.  Thinking of making the trip up this Sunday to see if it changes my mind...  Here's to hoping this New Year's is better than last!

Chris wrote

  The money wasted at Gore/WF snowmaking is loose change to the money wasted in Albany, and NYC.

Sir, NYC makes the money. The rest of the state spends it.

Benny Profane wrote

NYC makes the money. The rest of the state spends it.

QFT.

The way that many upstaters think of it as their god-given money is laughable -- and I grew up in CNY.