Did Gore and WF use their money wisely ?

Do you think it was a prudent financial decision for Gore and WF to open this weekend. Should they have waited like Hunter?

Yes, we had fun as did many other people.  Without knowing how much was spent on snowmaking it is impossible to answer scientifically.

I think the intangible benefits they accrued in the form of customer goodwill made it well worth opening.  I saw a lot of smiles at Gore on Saturday, and it sounds like that scene was repeated at both areas all 3 days.

Adk Jeff wrote

I think the intangible benefits they accrued in the form of customer goodwill made it well worth opening.  I saw a lot of smiles at Gore on Saturday, and it sounds like that scene was repeated at both areas all 3 days.

Agreed.

Also, I can't speak for Gore, but Whiteface traditionally uses this weekend, as they did this year as well, to run their hiring clinics for ski instructors. They were doing the evaluations on Saturday and I think they started some of the training on Sunday. They use the next two weekends (hopefully) for further training, in anticipation of the opening of the Kids Kampus area, which usually happens the week before Christmas.

JasonWx wrote

Do you think it was a prudent financial decision for Gore and WF to open this weekend. Should they have waited like Hunter?

I doubt Hunter had the temperture windows WF did. WF had 1,000 customers Fri. a little less Sat. and Sun. Skiing was very good especially considering the warm temps. I'm happy as heck they opened.

The weather actually was colder than forecast and it turned out to be a really nice weekend.  LP was full so it was worth it economically for the region.  I think the snow we got made a big difference on how much snow they actually had to blow so it was less costly than it would have been without it.

I am more than a little suprised that WF decided to stay open today though - not sure how many tickets they will sell vs the cost of operating the facelift

sounds like WF made the right decision..

sounds like Gore , well, maybe not..

Hey Jason, if you don't like Gore come right out and say it.

We all enjoyed ourselves at Gore, so unless you can provide actual numbers to prove your point,
I say stick to your forecasts

Face4Me wrote

Also, I can't speak for Gore, but Whiteface traditionally uses this weekend, as they did this year as well, to run their hiring clinics for ski instructors. They were doing the evaluations on Saturday and I think they started some of the training on Sunday. They use the next two weekends (hopefully) for further training, in anticipation of the opening of the Kids Kampus area, which usually happens the week before Christmas.

You're right on target. Gore did the same thing.

I think Gore used my money wisely. They have had my money since June so its nice of them to let me play with my purchase.

Interesting question.

Not sure how you measure financial prudence.  You can't just measure cost against incremental (non-passholder ticket) revenue.  If you only opened on days when you were "in the black" then you'd only open 35 days a year - mid-winter weekends and holidays.

If you did that, you wouldn't sell any season passes which (at Gore) are around ~20% of ticket revenue. People like me who invest in the whole season - second home owners etc - would probably look for another mountain.

I say you blow when it LOOKS like it's going to be cold enough to pay off in the big picture - that means the week, this season and next. You shoot for the traditional start of the season if possible. Thanksgiving IS a holiday weekend, and is probably "more profitable" than most weekdays.

The decision to open or not is always going to be easier at Whiteface. It's farther north and higher up.  But the fact that Gore did pull it off, even if just barely, indicates to me that it was not an easy call to make. With regard to Hunter - they didn't have to make a choice.  No significant temps below freezing before Thanksgiving and a big rainstorm on Tuesday.

Props to Gore for taking advantage of their new guns and opening the hill. The seriousness of the effort was appreciated by those of us who came out.  I sense an urgency to deliver, and I like it.

One final point - skiers don't seem to scrutinize the cost of traditional marketing the way they do snowmaking.  Snowmaking is operations, but it's also marketing.  When walking Neve to school this morning I was talking to the other dads.

"You skied this weekend? Where?"

"I was at Gore."

"Hmm..."

My two cents.

mattchuck2 wrote

Face4Me wrote

Also, I can't speak for Gore, but Whiteface traditionally uses this weekend, as they did this year as well, to run their hiring clinics for ski instructors. They were doing the evaluations on Saturday and I think they started some of the training on Sunday. They use the next two weekends (hopefully) for further training, in anticipation of the opening of the Kids Kampus area, which usually happens the week before Christmas.

You're right on target. Gore did the same thing.

This weekend I payed much more attention to what was going on with the instructors, and I got a bit of an education about it from Matt. I always thought it was an orientation thing, but as stated by Face4me it's a job interview.  IMO it's a good thing to do as early as possible for both the instructors who make it and those who don't - to find out if they have a job this season.

i just heard from a business owner in Wilmington that orda told the local businesses that there only have 60 days of snow making in the budget at WF for this season.  Given that I'm now not so sure it was a good decision to open - as much as i wanted and needed to get on snow if we have a dry winter and Orda pulls the plug in late Jan its going to really suck

ausable skier wrote

i just heard from a business owner in Wilmington that orda told the local businesses that there only have 60 days of snow making in the budget at WF for this season.  Given that I'm now not so sure it was a good decision to open - as much as i wanted and needed to get on snow if we have a dry winter and Orda pulls the plug in late Jan its going to really suck

Interesting that the snowmaking budget would be set in days, not dollars. Seems odd really.  My info says there was no change to the snowmaking budget.  I bet a donut that if WF needs snowmaking for Presidents Week, she'll get it.

Mike Pratt told me that the snowmaking upgrades at Gore meant the same amount of snow, for less money.  Not sure how it all fits together.

I think it was the right decision to open for the weekend and then close on Monday. It's the traditional start of the season and it's good to see them make the effort to open. Gore does not have a great reputation regarding early season snowmaking but maybe that's changing. Closing Monday-Thursday is a logical money saving decision.

tom

Harvey44 wrote

 Interesting that the snowmaking budget would be set in days, not dollars. Seems odd really.  My info says there was no

Maybe it's just an estimate, an off the cuff remark, to give the locals an idea of what to expect from the season. That would be reasonable.

The start of the season is always a "feel good" thing with tangible appreciation from the die hard pass holders. I just hate to see all the snow being washed away this week. While we all look forward to opening day, I think we should look at the big picture in terms of limited operating resources for the season. In other words, every dollar spent on making snow for three days of skiing (snow that will be pretty much gone this week) is money that won't be spent elsewhere this season. So I'd ask, what are we willing to give up for another 3 day washout? Are we willing to see them make less snow resulting in a, potentially, earlier closing? Are we willing to settle for more limited mid week terrain? I know; we want it all, but that's unrealistic at Gore.
I think snow making should begin when it's clear that the temps will sustain the snow for more than a few days. I don't mind skiing around spring time mud and rocks as much as opening day mud and rocks!

Checked the WF webcam this pm, pretty sad looking. On the bright side looks like snowmaking weather starting 12/1 which is of course the meteorologists official first day of Winter. Lets hope it kicks in with a bang. Teaser weekend was nice but lets get some serious winter going soon.

We some time ignore the fact that Gore is competing with many other choices for skiers. The fact is opening Thanksgiving is the sign of commitment to the skiing/boarding community and specifically season passholders. I would guess every ski area has a budget for snowmaking. Part of Gore's budget includes Thanksgiving. I think the marketing value is more important than the potential loss of snow.

If we all had a crystal ball life would be great