Does whiteface typically have good skiing over the Christmas break

Hey Guys:

I need some advice.  I am new here my Claude and I live in Kitchener, Ontario.  I have been two Lake Placid twice in the past two years but have always gone in February/March timeframe.  The conditions have always been fantastic.  This year I work for a company that shutdowns over the Christmas holidays so I booked a weeks vacation with friends from Dec 27-Jan 2 in Lake Placid.  I see the weather outside and I am getting nervous that most of WF will not be open when I go down there in late Dec.  Can anyone comment on what theirs thoughts are for late Dec skiing.  If you have past experience I would not mind hearing that as well.  

Thanks,

Claude

Of course it goes without saying, it all depends on the weather ... oh well, I guess I did say it after all.

Anyway, the last two seasons, things have started off pretty slow, but have picked up nicely in mid December. Whiteface management knows they have to put on a good "show" for the holiday week, so they'll do all they can to get things open as quickly as possible. I think Skyward opened the day before Christmas last year. You can go back through some of the trip reports on this forum from last December to get an idea of how things were going.

If you're looking to ski any of the glades, you'll probably be out of luck for Christmas week, though you never know ... maybe we'll get hit with a big early season storm.

The snowmaking pattern usually goes something like this: They start with Excelsior down to Upper Valley to the mid-station lodge. Weather depending, they continue down Lower Valley back to the base. Once that's built up, they usually get Essex and Lower Cloudspin open next. From there, they'll move to Mountain Run, and possibly Approach. After that, they'll probably move on to Broadway (for the park) and Boreen, for the easy way down to the base. They'll also be adding Kids Kampus and some of the other lower mountain trails as weather permits. Once they get a good part of the lower mountain open, they've been moving to the Wilmington Trail next. They may also work on Paron's Run and Skyward at the same time.

Unless there's some significant help from Mother Nature, don't expect any of the following to be open for Christmas week: Upper Cloudspin, Upper Northway, Upper Mackenzie, Lower Skyward, Lookout Below, Lower Parkway, and Upper Wilderness. Lower Wilderness, Lower Mackenzie may be open with thin cover by Christmas week, but they probably will not have done any snowmaking there before Christmas.

They need about two solid weeks of good, sustained cold weather to get most of the mountain open. If the weather gets cold, and stays cold, by around December 10, you should be in relatively good shape for Christmas week.

but we also have had december's where empire and Cloudsplitter glades were open - i think it was 2007 or 08

its very weather dependent just like any other eastern ski area

Claude, I generally agree with Face4me but there is another issues that I would like to address. With limited trails open and big Holiday crowds the conditions tend to go downhill by about noon. (ICY) So if you want the better snow you should be on the hill for opening bell and plan on calling it by just after lunch. Dealing with the NY/NJ metro skiers can also be a challenge. On the other hand we may get lucky and have the whole mountain open with nice soft well groomed snow, I can always dream.

I have never had great luck with Whiteface during Christmas week, so now we avoid it.  It definitely feels a lot more crowded than at other times of the year.  The last time we were there over Christmas week was in 2008 when we left after 3 runs, because the conditions were getting dangerous with all of the crowds and ice.  Turns out that someone died there about an hour after we left.  However, I think it was that same year that we had great skiing over Thanksgiving and into early December, so it's tough to predict how it will be from one week to the next.

endoftheline wrote

 Dealing with the NY/NJ metro skiers can also be a challenge.

Can we stop with this nonsense? When I ski I do not see any way to identify skiers and boarders on the slopes. Here's a little FYI - most of the people I know who ski go to Gore, southern VT up to Killington or the Catskills for their weekend and holiday fun.

it does seem that during the holidays you get more answers in the gondi of where folks are from followed by a "your from jersey - what exit?"

WF is perceived to be farther away so Jersey folk tend to come more for the longer holiday weeks / weekends.  When you factor in all the 2 lane road time to get to Mt Snow, stratton, K-mart or Sugarbush compared to WF mostly being interstate its not that much longer.  A friend of mine from Sussex Co makes it to my house in under 4 hours though he does drive like a madman.  Is that because he has yellow lisc plates or he is just crazy I'm not sure.

ausable skier wrote

WF is perceived to be farther away so Jersey folk tend to come more for the longer holiday weeks / weekends.  When you factor in all the 2 lane road time to get to Mt Snow, stratton, K-mart or Sugarbush compared to WF mostly being interstate its not that much longer.  A friend of mine from Sussex Co makes it to my house in under 4 hours though he does drive like a madman.  Is that because he has yellow lisc plates or he is just crazy I'm not sure.

It is not perception. WF is way farther than the bottom 3 I listed when leaving from my north Jersey house.
Lake Placid 270 miles 4:30 on a good night
Killington 250 miles 4-4:30 depending on traffic and final stop.
Gore 215 miles 3:10 always
Stratton 205 miles 3:30
Mt Snow 198 miles 3:45

The last 30 miles getting to LP or to Wilmington are no bargin on a Friday night. Not nearly as bad as Stratton (which is now way better than Mt Snow). The easiest to get to is Gore. Your buddy from Sussex Co is really pushing his luck. I hope he has a radar detector. Sugarbush is one of my favorites but it is a pain to get to from NJ. There is no direct route and you are pushing up on 6 hours. Factor in some Friday night traffic and maybe some winter weather and you are over 7 hours - way too much for a weekend.

WF is roughly the same time as Killington.  I used to live in NJ and had a cottage at Pico.  The traffic on 149 on a friday and then getting thru Rutland is the big difference and make the drive more stressful even though WF is farther.  There is no traffic at all on Rt 73 compared to going to Killington.

Of course Gore is closer.

To return to the gist of this thread WF just like everywhere else is weather dependent and crowded at xmas.  Its not as crowded as Killington but no where is compared to the big K.

My best advice is that you are better off coming for to WF for a week in march compared to what it will cost you for 3-4 days over xmas week.

x10003q wrote

endoftheline wrote

 Dealing with the NY/NJ metro skiers can also be a challenge.

Can we stop with this nonsense? When I ski I do not see any way to identify skiers and boarders on the slopes. Here's a little FYI - most of the people I know who ski go to Gore, southern VT up to Killington or the Catskills for their weekend and holiday fun.

+1

As a NY metro area person (formerly from Albany), I do not encounter such "challenging" skiers at Gore and Whiteface.  Ever.  This stereotype is such BS.  Most metro area people that I meet at these ski areas are fun, avid skiers.  I suspect the founder of this great site, apparently from Jersey, would agree.  

Back on topic.  My avatar shows what WF looked like in Early December 2008.  We had a great early season that year.  Hoping for another.  Otherwise we'll be doing some of the kid hikes from another thread.  

Hey Guys:

I am reading all of the threads and I appreciate the feedback.  I am going to go in March as someone suggested however as I mentioned I have that time off and I need to go somewhere. The other choice is to stay home and watch paint dry :)  We were going to go to SLC but the budget held us back.  

I absolutely love WF and LP and wish I could move and live there.  This the reason I picked.  I love the town and I love the steepness and length of the runs.  If you guys think its not a good choice for Christmas Holidays are there other places I should look because they have more snow or better conditions???

Claude

If you choose to go outside of NY (god forbid!) both Killington and Jay Peak are about the same distance from your home in Ontario.  All of VT has the advantage of upslope snow which can refresh surfaces after a rain/freeze or thaw event.  Killington has awesome snowmaking power which would be helpful if the weather doesn't cooperate.  Jay Peak probably gets more snow than any other resort in VT (or the northeast) and with it's northern location has the best chance to avoid unfrozed precip all together.  Plus Jay Peak is adding more off-hill entertainment options.

If I lived the same distance from Jay and Kmart and was choosing between the two I'd pick Jay every time.

That said, because of this...

BigK75 wrote

I absolutely love WF and LP and wish I could move and live there.  This the reason I picked.  I love the town and I love the steepness and length of the runs.

...I think you should go to Whiteface.  I don't know your age or interests, but Lake Placid is a fantastic place to be, whether you are skiing or not.  You love the place - I'd say go for it.  Dec 27 is a long way away. And remember that if conditions are bad in NY they could be bad in VT too.

I'd really like to hear from WF regulars, if they can remember the last four or five December holiday periods.

I looked back through my Gore trip reports from 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and two had good conditions and two had fair conditions.  The better years were 2007 and 2008. 2007 had some nice amounts of fresh snow that week and 2008 had some amazing skiing earlier in December.

It's not scientific, but in my memory WF seems to get more terrain open in the early season vs Gore.  That said, I think it's fair to say that if conditions are right (cold), Gore is likely to go all out this year to open terrain by Christmas.  They've got some new snowmaking toys, and are probably going to want to represent.

Looks like it might be snowing on top of Whiteface tonight:

CMR wrote

x10003q wrote

endoftheline wrote

 Dealing with the NY/NJ metro skiers can also be a challenge.

Can we stop with this nonsense? When I ski I do not see any way to identify skiers and boarders on the slopes. Here's a little FYI - most of the people I know who ski go to Gore, southern VT up to Killington or the Catskills for their weekend and holiday fun.

+1

As a NY metro area person (formerly from Albany), I do not encounter such "challenging" skiers at Gore and Whiteface.  Ever.  This stereotype is such BS.  Most metro area people that I meet at these ski areas are fun, avid skiers.  I suspect the founder of this great site, apparently from Jersey, would agree.

I doubt that Endo meant anything too harsh by his original comment.  Holidays are definitely crowded and at NY ski areas those crowds are primarily from downstate NY and NJ.  In some ways locals are really lucky.  The thundering hordes come for Christmas and Presidents week and pay the bills. Meanwhile the mountains are open for 4 months and locals have access to some great untracked conditions.

That said, I also get weary of the generalizations I hear.  NJ gets a lot of crap.  There's 8 million of us down here. Some of us are cool and some of us are jerks. Just like any place else.  I hear stereotyping from both mountain folks and flatlanders.  I don't like any of it.

Counterpoint: I'm continually amazed at the acceptance shown by the North Creek locals I ski with.  I know we are from different worlds, but when we pull up after ripping through the trees at Gore, we look each other in the eye, and know that we are all little kids at heart, with something we love in common. It seems to mean more than our differences.

Sorry to drift this thread. Whenever this topic comes up, it's ALWAYS off topic to the original thread, but I can't bring myself to break out a thread that's going to emphasize our differences or get loaded with a bunch of stereotypes.  If somebody else wants to start a thread that's fine, but I don't want to be author of it.

Drift....I suspect alot of it is just people in general, being on a holiday, all excited and self indulgent. This happens to most people at one time or another while traveling. With skiing, it seems to me to be more pronounced, i.e. people get all excited and yes self indulgent and forget manners.

None the less, it does get annoying. I've seen some real rudeness over these holiday stretches. Some of them are just azzholes. There's definitely no shortage of those now days.

I once saw a guy get out of his car, then place his skis on top of a stranger's car hood. It was a new vehicle. The stranger approached him and some tense words were exchanged.

Jerk. That's an infraction worthy of an azz whoopin.

you see these families show up at the mt.  They have just driven up last night, got in late, drag the kiddies up to the mt and are not happy campers.  skiing is supposed to be the magic release (at least it is for me) but they are so stressed out they are practically vibrating.  orda and the town wants and needs their business but i look at them as think jeez if you wanted to relax why did you pick the busiest week of the year to come.  It would be so much better if the crowds spread themselves out and come a week later or earlier.  

I am guilty of relating these folks with NJ because i used to live there for 10 years and was just as unhappy as they seem to be to me when i see them at WF.  They may very well unwind by the time they go home.  For me the worst thing was the going back and not staying.  Sitting on I80 for 2+ hours a day stressed to the max.  Harv No offense is intended I'm just so happy I now live here and not there.  I'll back off on the NJ comments.  Huntah comments are another thing entirely though.

ausable skier wrote

It would be so much better if the crowds spread themselves out and come a week later or earlier.

I can't speak for other families, but we have reasons for skiing the holidays.

We have a five year old in school.  We don't want her to miss school.  Plus for me it's really hard to get away for a week. Time is easier to take during Christmas week. Around 12/22 people just accept that nothing is going to get done until 1/2.

Plus both my company and Zeldas give EXTRA days off during Christmas. It's not unusual for us to be at Gore for 8 or 9 days and to only use 2 or 3 vacation days.  By the end of ski season most of my vacation days are gone, so I try to stretch them as far as we can.  

In addition, if we stayed home, we'd be off most of the time and we wouldn't be skiing. The few days I'd go to work would be dead, and I'd be bored and wishing I was skiing.

At Gore, the crowds aren't a huge issue.  Yeah the parking lot and the lodge are a zoo, and there will be a line for the Gondola. But once you park your butt into a Gondi cabin at 8am, it's not too bad.  Presidents is obviously better than Christmas as the full mountain is likely to be open. And holidays all the lifts are running.

We've got season passes, a paid-for place to stay near the hill, time off, and we love to ski. The holidays are just more fun in the mountains. So we come.

ausable skier wrote

I am guilty of relating these folks with NJ because i used to live there for 10 years and was just as unhappy as they seem to be to me when i see them at WF.  They may very well unwind by the time they go home.  For me the worst thing was the going back and not staying.  Sitting on I80 for 2+ hours a day stressed to the max.  Harv No offense is intended I'm just so happy I now live here and not there.  I'll back off on the NJ comments.  Huntah comments are another thing entirely though.

Sounds like you have a nice setup. I never want to leave the mountains either.

You don't have to back off from anything.  Forum members should speak their mind, including me.  I've put some effort into building the forum and I appreciate it when opinions are expressed with respect because it makes the forum stronger and more diverse.  The best forums have a diverse variety of opinions expressed, and it's harder to attract different kinds of people if they don't feel welcome.  I accept that those are my goals, not necessarily yours or anyone else's.  This isn't my blog, it's our forum. I'm one of 200 here.

Harvey44 wrote

In addition, if we stayed home, we'd be off most of the time and we wouldn't be skiing. The few days I'd go to work would be dead, and I'd be bored and wishing I was skiing.

At Gore, the crowds aren't a huge issue.  Yeah the parking lot and the lodge are a zoo, and there will be a line for the Gondola. But once you park your butt into a Gondi cabin at 8am, it's not too bad.  Presidents is obviously better than Christmas as the full mountain is likely to be open. And holidays all the lifts are running.

We've got season passes, a paid-for place to stay near the hill, time off, and we love to ski. The holidays are just more fun in the mountains. So we come.

Harv

I totally get why you ski during the holidays.  When i didn't live here full time i spent the week btw the holidays up here as well.  But our set up is totally different than the folks that I'm refering to that i feel sorry for.  You have a house that that is paid for if you use it or not, season passes, and know the lay of the land.  If you are a local or  regular the whole process of getting to the mt and out skiing is something that we do so often that there is no stress to it.  These folks that only get to ski that week plus maybe a few other weekends are not as well versed in the process and have kids that need to get into lessons and rentals to be picked up etc. Its more stressful to go to an unfamilar place

Since most reader of this blog  have season passes we can be there early get some runs in and pack it in if it becomes a zoo.  We also know how to move around the mt and when are where to eat lunch to avoid the masses and maximize our ski days.

When we go out west we always do it during a non holiday and I don't mind pulling my son out of school for a week.

This Christmas will be very deep! Def come to WF.  We are setting up for a huge December!!  

We have done LP twice for New Year's with a group of friends and have had a blast.  Both times over 50% of the mountain was open.  They try to get wilmington trail open by/during that time.  Little WF will have quite a few runs open.  The top is a crapshoot.  If you get lucky and the temps are good and you get a few storms in December it will be there.  Lots of stuff to do if you take a day off due to hangover or being early season sore.  I don't think you can beat the nightlife and the atmosphere anywhere on the east coast.  LP is certainly touristy but it doesn't feel contrived.  Try to get out early though cause the restaurants do get busy.

I tend to always compare gore and wf crowds to the crowds in the popular VT resorts.  I'll take NY anytime.  As long as you have your stuff when you get to the mountain and you know where you are going you just avoid the idiots.

I haven't been to Jay, but if I could get there in same amount of time I might do it.  Not as much nightlife tho I don't think.  If you are happy with some brewskis and a fire go to Jay.

Hello All:

I thought I should update how our trip went just in case anyone was curious.  We arrived to LP from Kitchener Ontario on Dec 27 to pouring rain.  We were expecting snow but that never happened.  Disappointment quickly set in.  The plan originally was to go to Killington for one night then to go to LP and stay at the Crowne Plaza for the rest of the week and leave Jan 2nd.  We decided to cancel Killington and go straight to LP.  We stayed the first night at the Art Deviin just to check it out.  Its not a 5 star hotel, but its dirt cheap, extremely clean, huge rooms and I think from now on our stays will be there.  You just cannot be the price.

We went skiing on the Dec 28th but due to howling winds they closed the Gondola.  We turned in our tickets and received vouchers for the next day.  We skied on the 29th and the 30th and both days were amazing. The crew at Whiteface did a fantastic job of blowing snow and grooming.  Considering the conditions on the 27th they did an outstanding job.  There was limited terrain open but it was more than enough for us.  We must be getting older because after each day of skiing we were in bed by 8-9pm watching TV and enjoying cocktails.  We just had no energy to do anything.  Not a party atmosphere, but still great fun. There four of us in one room made for lots of laughs and lots of drinks.  It was me, my wife and my buddy and his wife.      

By Dec 31st my shins looked like tenderized meat and so we took a break.  We did the usual shopping in LP. On Dec 31st we met a bunch of people in the lobby and began to party with them.  This led to us crashing the New Years eve party at the Crown Plaza were we staying.  We not eat their food or drink the alcohol, but we did dance the night away. :)

On Jan 1st hangover we dragged ourselves to the mountain for more skiing.  By then the summit was open and a lot more terrain opened up including Upper Thurway.  We skied the full day and had a blast.  

Jan 2nd was our last day and we decided to skiing all day even though we had a long drive back to Canada.  We spent the full day skiing and left LP at around 6pm.  By 1:30am we were back in Kitchener.  Next day at work was tough :)

I will also add that we ate at the Crowne Plaza (all you can eat pasta), Lake Pub and Brewery,  Bazzi's Pizza.  All three restaurants were very good and I would go back. In particular we loved Bazzi's Pizza and we ate there three times over the course of the trip.  We also ate at the Adirondack Steak and Seafood restaurant which was rated as okay to bad by the majority of our group.  One guy found the steak amazing, but he'll eat anything :)  The price at the steakhouse was extremely high. (I know he is reading this so I thought I would give him a jab).  We wanted to go the Brown Dog and Cafe and the Whiteface lodge for a drink but in the end tiredness always won out and we never made it.    

In summary, this was a wonderful vacation and I am so happy I spent it at my favourite place.  Thanks to everyone for your comments and help while we were planning our vacation.  

Claude