Dreaming of Hickory

I just am trying to figure out did the club get approved?   I want to go out and say that Hickory offers the closest steep skiing to NJ/NY.  I can get there in 3.5 hours from N. Jersey.  
This place really is amazing.  

sirskier wrote

I just am trying to figure out did the club get approved?   I want to go out and say that Hickory offers the closest steep skiing to NJ/NY.  I can get there in 3.5 hours from N. Jersey.  
This place really is amazing.

I guess it is the closest steep skiing to NJ if you pretend Hunter and Plattekill do not exist.

sirskier wrote

I just am trying to figure out did the club get approved?  

It wasn't a matter of approvals.  It was a matter of getting a certain number of members committed.  That didn't happen. I don't know if they're going to give it another try.  Last time I checked the Hickory Alpine Club website and Facebook page were both still up.

Maybe a group could maintain the brush and keep it as an AT area? I think that would be cool.

raisingarizona wrote

Maybe a group could maintain the brush and keep it as an AT area? I think that would be cool.

this is a possibility as long as they don't put no trespassing signs up. its kind of what is happening now.
a bunch of like minded diehards are maintaining the trail system and cutting the glades.

Maybe if they got organized and started discussions with the land owners something positive could be produced? I guess liability would be the big hurdle?

The problem is you have an owner (with a soft spot in his heart for Hickory for sure) who has to write big (six figure) checks every year to keep Hickory alive.  Those checks are even bigger in years when they actually open.  

There is no model, that preserves the hill's unique flavor, that can support it, unless that model relies on the generosity of those who can afford to ignore the bottom line.  Hickory can't support itself with two surface lifts and no snowmaking.

There is no easy answer.

if i hit lotto it will be my first purchase. everything about the place is awesome when the snow is flying.

x10003q wrote

 I guess it is the closest steep skiing to NJ if you pretend Hunter and Plattekill do not exist.

I read once that Hickory has one of the best steep to vert ratio around. Can't remember exactly how it was expressed but it was something like that and something like #6 in the nation. So it's rather unique.

If they only had chairlifts, snowmaking and then advertisement it could attract a lot of hotshot skiers.

Snowballs wrote

x10003q wrote

 I guess it is the closest steep skiing to NJ if you pretend Hunter and Plattekill do not exist.

If they only had chairlifts, snowmaking and then advertisement it could attract a lot of hotshot skiers.

That's the ticket.  Add snowmaking, clear cut those trails wide, regrade for easy grooming with a winch cat, build a high speed quad, and compete the hell out of Stratton.

Oh, wait...

MM

Milo Maltbie wrote

Snowballs wrote

x10003q wrote

 I guess it is the closest steep skiing to NJ if you pretend Hunter and Plattekill do not exist.

If they only had chairlifts, snowmaking and then advertisement it could attract a lot of hotshot skiers.

That's the ticket.  Add snowmaking, clear cut those trails wide, regrade for easy grooming with a winch cat, build a high speed quad, and compete the hell out of Stratton.

Oh, wait...

MM

Ah, you wish to test your prowess. Ok.

Nah, just chairlifts and snow making. The rest of your complete foolishness isn't needed and wasn't suggested by me.

Since you're confused and cannot figure it out for yourself, nice guy that I am, I will school you for free.

Ya see, Hickory cannot function the way it is. It's extremely rare that it has enough snow to open for more than a few days per year. Some years it doesn't open at all. Also, it doesn't have sufficient cash flow to fund even those few days.

So if you MM, have far, far more cash than the little brains you've just displayed then please feel free to fund the losing business model you back. Pony up hotshot. Go ahead. We're waiting.

Oh, wait.... you can't and you wouldn't anyway.

By the way, Harv had just said the same thing I did.

Harvey wrote

The problem is you have an owner (with a soft spot in his heart for Hickory for sure) who has to write big (six figure) checks every year to keep Hickory alive.  Those checks are even bigger in years when they actually open.  

Hickory can't support itself with two surface lifts and no snowmaking.

There it is ! Why didn't you take Harv to task over it MM ? Lack of courage ?

MM - mental midget, measly man.


Hickory...... It's Hard !!!

Snowballs wrote

Hickory can't support itself...

Fixed it for you.

Since your reading skills obviously aren't advanced enough to understand irony, I'll explain it to you in small words.  Hickory is the victim of bad weather, a stagnant local economy and a changing skiing public.  It's not big enough and does not have enough flat terrain for blue trails to compete with the big resorts, no matter what they build.  Adding a chairlift would just make it expensive, but adding snow making and grooming would destroy what we went there for in the first place.  

MM

Milo Maltbie wrote

Snowballs wrote

Hickory can't support itself...

Fixed it for you.

Since your reading skills obviously aren't advanced enough to understand irony, I'll explain it to you in small words.  Hickory is the victim of bad weather, a stagnant local economy and a changing skiing public.  It's not big enough and does not have enough flat terrain for blue trails to compete with the big resorts, no matter what they build.  Adding a chairlift would just make it expensive, but adding snow making and grooming would destroy what we went there for in the first place.  

MM

So, just curious, how many days have you skied there in, um, the last ten years?

when i hear add a chairlift i realize people just don't get the beauty of surface lifts and never will. when we get a nor'easter and it drops a fresh 15 on us you have a few choices. go to mnt  snow and pull your pud because all the lifts are on wind hold. go to gore and freeze your ass off as you hang in the air from a chairlift. or go to hickory and have the time of your life. the wind does not effect the snow conditions because the trails are cut correctly and hold the snow. the -20 below wind chill does not effect you because the wind is blocked from the trees. hell there is a good chance you will take your coat off because you are now sweating your ass off.

i think MM nailed it "changing skiing public" .
a hardcore group of skiers goes to hickory, not the masses. unfortunately this is not enough to carry the place because we bail once it is skied off.  snow making may help that but it will also change the character of the snow. i wish i had the an answer better then we need an ass kicking winter for hickory to survive

sig wrote

when i hear add a chairlift i realize people just don't get the beauty of surface lifts and never will. when we get a nor'easter and it drops a fresh 15 on us you have a few choices. go to mnt  snow and pull your pud because all the lifts are on wind hold. go to gore and freeze your ass off as you hang in the air from a chairlift. or go to hickory and have the time of your life. the wind does not effect the snow conditions because the trails are cut correctly and hold the snow. the -20 below wind chill does not effect you because the wind is blocked from the trees. hell there is a good chance you will take your coat off because you are now sweating your ass off.

i think MM nailed it "changing skiing public" .
a hardcore group of skiers goes to hickory, not the masses. unfortunately this is not enough to carry the place because we bail once it is skied off.  snow making may help that but it will also change the character of the snow. i wish i had the an answer better then we need an ass kicking winter for hickory to survive

But, Hickory is never open. Hey, I'll bet it's great, but, really, how many days has the mountain operated in the past ten years?

I showed up a Saturday morning a few years ago with meh conditions, but, at least it was open, and they told me it wouldn't be open for an hour or two, especially the upper lift. Ok, as I jump in the car and hit Gore. They have pretty good skiing there too.

@Sig, I'm a huge fan of surface lifts and I don't understand why that would be the game changer, especially if the place has financial problems. Surface lifts are way easier to maintain, work in the wind, cost less, and probably help with insurance costs as well. For an area like Hickory I would think surface lifts are an asset not a problem.

My ideal area would be just surface lifts and all natural terrain with huge back country access. Put a nice lodge and bar at the bottom and call it good. Of course, this needs to be somewhere where it snows.

I'm still bummed that Plattekill put in a chair to replace the old t-bar. I thought that thing was so cool.

raisingarizona wrote

@Sig, I'm a huge fan of surface lifts and I don't understand why that would be the game changer, especially if the place has financial problems. Surface lifts are way easier to maintain, work in the wind, cost less, and probably help with insurance costs as well. For an area like Hickory I would think surface lifts are an asset not a problem.

My ideal area would be just surface lifts and all natural terrain with huge back country access. Put a nice lodge and bar at the bottom and call it good. Of course, this needs to be somewhere where it snows.

Because they are very hard to use on a snowboard, a sizable segment of the present market. Especially that one that launches you at the bottom.

sig wrote

i wish i had the an answer better then we need an ass kicking winter for hickory to survive

that is the answer.  image if you were a snowmobiler.....    I mean w/out snowmaking a lot of winter sport seasons are shrinking to the point of being relics of a bygone era...    

raisingarizona wrote

My ideal area would be just surface lifts and all natural terrain with huge back country access. Put a nice lodge and bar at the bottom and call it good. Of course, this needs to be somewhere where it snows.

That's the Silverton model (except they're using a slow double chair), which seems to be working out great for them, but it still needs snow.

MM

ScottyJack wrote

  I mean w/out snowmaking a lot of winter sport seasons are shrinking to the point of being relics of a bygone era...  

All sports (except video games) are becoming relics of a bygone era.  If you hand a kid a baseball now, he'll ask you where the batteries go.

MM