Dreaming of Hickory

Milo Maltbie wrote

 Adding a chairlift would just make it expensive, but adding snow making and grooming would destroy what we went there for in the first place.  

MM

That's absolutely right Benny.

Since Hickory doesn't currently have any of those things MM listed above he can go there all the time ! Yes sir, he can sit in the parking lot for days and days on end to get his fill of " what we went there for ". In fact, he doesn't even have to go solely in the winter as the very same experience, sans cold, could be had all year round.

Look MM, sorry I roughed you up. The fact is snow skiing absolutely requires snow. No way around it. Places like Hickory take money to maintain and even more money to operate. Without snow and income it stays just like it is - nonfunctional. If that's what you like then enjoy.


Hickory...... It's Hard !!!

raisingarizona wrote

@Sig, I'm a huge fan of surface lifts and I don't understand why that would be the game changer, especially if the place has financial problems. Surface lifts are way easier to maintain, work in the wind, cost less, and probably help with insurance costs as well. For an area like Hickory I would think surface lifts are an asset not a problem.

My ideal area would be just surface lifts and all natural terrain with huge back country access. Put a nice lodge and bar at the bottom and call it good. Of course, this needs to be somewhere where it snows.

Hickory goes from about 680ft to 1760ft above sea level. It does not get enough snow. The surface lifts are the not the problem. The place needs snowmaking.

raisingarizona wrote

I'm still bummed that Plattekill put in a chair to replace the old t-bar. I thought that thing was so cool.

The t-bar was cool for the crazies who populate forums like this one. The t-bar did kill your legs. Adding the double chair has made Plattekill a credible ski area to the other 90% of skiers and, as mentioned, surface lifts are tough for boarders. This allows Plattekill to make more money by increased skier visits by having a chair vs leaving the t-bar.

Another issue with surface lifts are they tire people out too quick. This makes it hard and then limits your day and keeps others away all together cutting into business.

Back in the day, Hick faithful used to say " bring big legs " because of this. With the ungroomed steeps of Hick, riding surface lifts gets to be too much for most people.

Wind advantage of surface lifts is real. If I were putting a chair in there, I would strive to keep it low like the high peaks chair at Gore and run it up the line were the lift is now. Narrow path, shielded by trees.


Hickory...... It's Hard !!!

My idea was something that is more like a city park then. Forget the lift even. With back country skiing becoming more and more popular just get volunteers to go out and maintain the area in the summer. Keep it skiable for when it does snow and find other uses for the area as well.

The truth is if the climate is shifting as it seems to and continues to do so we are just going to have to accept that a lot of these places are going under.

People used to climb or hang on to a rope tow for their turns all day long, why are we so soft now?

snowballs you will never understand the draw of hickory, you  just don't get it or its vibe. some clown did not take a chainsaw out and carve a trail 4 miles wide so you can bomb down the hill and not come within 50 feet of a tree. thought was put into trail layout based on where snow gathers. if hickory closes people will skin up it every chance they get.
its not straton and can not compete on catering to those types.  

raisingarizona wrote

My idea was something that is more like a city park then. Forget the lift even.

Something like this?

Back Country Ski Area Development

Exactly! I think this is the future.

Silverton has a small ski area in town, it's like 300 vert or something. Every time I'm there I look up at the mountain it sits on and think it would be so cool to have developed and maybe mitigated backcountry type tree skiing on that mountains shoulder. It's right in town and it would give visiting skiers more reason to stay an extra day or two spending more money in town.

The trees go up an additional 1500 vert at least and it drops right into town. You could go for two laps and then walk downtown to go eat or hang out.

Glad to see the Hickory conversation is continuing. I missed Hickory a lot while living in Colorado.   Making the place financially sustainable is a real catch-22.  

raisingarizona wrote

People used to climb or hang on to a rope tow for their turns all day long, why are we so soft now?

They used to climb or hang on rope tows because that was the only way up, not for some sense of toughness or purity. If chairlifts were as cheap as rope tows, nobody would have ever heard of rope tows.

I enjoy the purity of climbing. Each his own but you don't need a chairlift or any lift for that matter to go out and enjoy skiing. With the costs of lift tickets and everything else that goes with it I would imagine their is a growing number of people interested in a more back country and inexpensive skiing experience. I know I am.

raisingarizona wrote

I enjoy the purity of climbing. Each his own but you don't need a chairlift or any lift for that matter to go out and enjoy skiing. With the costs of lift tickets and everything else that goes with it I would imagine their is a growing number of people interested in a more back country and inexpensive skiing experience. I know I am.

I agree, but you are in a small group. For the vast majority of skiers snowmaking and  chairlifts are requirements.

x10003q wrote

raisingarizona wrote

I enjoy the purity of climbing. Each his own but you don't need a chairlift or any lift for that matter to go out and enjoy skiing. With the costs of lift tickets and everything else that goes with it I would imagine their is a growing number of people interested in a more back country and inexpensive skiing experience. I know I am.

I agree, but you are in a small group. For the vast majority of skiers snowmaking and  chairlifts are requirements.

 
A city park doesn't have to appease the masses and it would barely cost anything. It is a growing market, maybe not as much in the east or it's not as obvious....yet, but it's growing faster than any other subset of the sport right now. It's just an idea to keep a soulful place skiable even though a ski "area" isn't really viable any longer. And it would be a cool as shit experience.

the jaded local column in the last powder mag finally stated what needed to be said about back country skiing. 99% of the time involves driving to the mountain and then skinning it - all for a brief  ski run. the majority of skiers want to ski not drive and hike. eastern back country skiing is even tougher with longer hikes. back country skiing is about the concept. these are people who like multi day backpacking, winter camping, and other adventurous activities. hickory is very enjoyable for the hardcore but will never attract enough skiers who desire more mainstream ski attractions like snowmaking which does not appeal to the hardcore. the odds are not good for long term survival for hickory.

Frk's post is spot on. You gotta want the hike and love the climb otherwise, buy a ticket.  Hickory, although an interesting hill is not a back country destination IMHO. There are so many other spots, particularly in areas that get a lot more snow. Some require a long trek, some are a short stroll from the car.

frk wrote

the jaded local column in the last powder mag finally stated what needed to be said about back country skiing. 99% of the time involves driving to the mountain and then skinning it - all for a brief  ski run. the majority of skiers want to ski not drive and hike. eastern back country skiing is even tougher with longer hikes. back country skiing is about the concept. these are people who like multi day backpacking, winter camping, and other adventurous activities. hickory is very enjoyable for the hardcore but will never attract enough skiers who desire more mainstream ski attractions like snowmaking which does not appeal to the hardcore. the odds are not good for long term survival for hickory.

I think a lot of westerners do it out of boredom. They live a hybrid life of mostly lift serviced when snow is good, and backcountry when snow is fading into the past. Also, it's awesome aerobic exercise, on a day that you just want awesome aerobic exercise. You know, to be even better in shape for the first chair on the powder morning.
The East? It's gotta snow more here for that kind of boredom to register.

sig wrote

 snowballs you will never understand the draw of hickory, you  just don't get it or its vibe.

 
Wrong. OMG, I do get it. Aren't you the one who said you'ld buy it if you win the lotto ? OK, So inform us what you would do to it ? Why buy it ? Go ahead, put your ideas/wishes here rather posting crap.

Leaving it to the few skinners a few days a year doesn't require a buyer so spill sig, share your enlightenment.

raisingarizona wrote

 It's just an idea to keep a soulful place skiable even though a ski "area" isn't really viable any longer. And it would be a cool as shit experience.

Yea well, that's what is at Hickory now RA. Guess what,,,, it doesn't work. Without their deep pockets benefactor it would be shut down and likely posted. Besides, backwoods ADK skiers don't need or go to Hickory, they go elsewhere where there's snow.

You people wanna ski it but you can't due to lack of snow. It gets very little snow. Often the snow in that area melts and is gone before areas just north of it.

It's steep so the little snow it does get is scraped off fast. It's rocky so it needs more snow even for those who like it there.

Snow skiing requires sufficient snow guys.

Snowballs wrote

sig wrote

 snowballs you will never understand the draw of hickory, you  just don't get it or its vibe.

 
Wrong. OMG, I do get it. Aren't you the one who said you'ld buy it if you win the lotto ? OK, So inform us what you would do to it ? Why buy it ? Go ahead, put your ideas/wishes here rather posting crap.

Leaving it to the few skinners a few days a year doesn't require a buyer so spill sig, share your enlightenment.

i would take a bath. lose $100,000 grand a year. there is no plan. the ski industry and weather are changing. hickory will not survive my lifetime. i would even let the namby pamby skiers like yourself ski it for free. bring your color coordinated skis ,boots and jacket and have it.

it would be worth the lose to let people enjoy it. why such a hater of a mountain you have never skied?

sig wrote

i would take a bath. lose $100,000 grand a year. there is no plan. why such a hater of a mountain you have never skied?

I thought so. " there is no plan " HAHAHAHA! You're clueless. You run your mouth, have no reason to do so and have nothing, absolutely nothing to back up your previous post @ me. Your only reason was to be a punk. Congrats,  you succeeded !

I don't hate Hick, never said anything like that. Just said it needs snow making and a chair, as have others in this thread. Catching on yet ?

Furthermore, I have skied Hick. See what happens when you assume sig ? It proves what a dumb dumb you are sig. No doubt you're very used to that.

Snowballs wrote

raisingarizona wrote

 It's just an idea to keep a soulful place skiable even though a ski "area" isn't really viable any longer. And it would be a cool as shit experience.

Yea well, that's what is at Hickory now RA. Guess what,,,, it doesn't work. Without their deep pockets benefactor it would be shut down and likely posted. Besides, backwoods ADK skiers don't need or go to Hickory, they go elsewhere where there's snow.

You people wanna ski it but you can't due to lack of snow. It gets very little snow. Often the snow in that area melts and is gone before areas just north of it.

It's steep so the little snow it does get is scraped off fast. It's rocky so it needs more snow even for those who like it there.

Snow skiing requires sufficient snow guys.

 
Well than I guess that is that then.

I guess it's like watching all of the species dying off with the climate shift. The enviro nuts keep crying about how we need to save them but really it's just the current evolution of things. It is what it is.