Gore Mountain Condos -- thoughts?

Hi all -- We are heading to Gore Mountain for the first time in Feb.  Last year I considered buying a condo at Stratton (a few families in my kids' school here in Dutchess County have places up there that we have been guests at) but wanted to see what NY has to offer.  We will be renting one of the Summit townhomes.  I plan on squeezing in some RE brokerage appointments, including a visit to see new Topridge condos.  I was just curious if anyone has an thoughts on Summit vs Gore Village Lane vs Topridge?  I have always wanted a ski place; I want to avoid the headaches of owning a house, but want a place I can keep all our gear at, go regularly on weekends and have family and friends as guests.   Any of you who own a ski house chime in if you disagree on the condo approach.

Thanks,
Petronio

My family skied at Gore two years ago and loved it so much we bought a place!  We just aren't condo people so we went the house route.  We like our privacy and we can snowshoe/xc ski out the door.  Right now we have to rent it to keep it up, so we spend our time skiing around buffalo and racing to the ADK whenever it's open.  May seem crazy, but there is a retirement plan built in there!  I would highly recommend the ski house.  Even though it is not open to us all the time, the kids love it, and we spend a lot of summer time there as well.  AND North Creek/ADK rock!  Go for it!!!!!!!

Just stating this... I live in Saratoga so I'm not in the market for such a thing.  

On your travels, don't hesitate to look at Lake George.  Its 30 minutes from Gore, has actual services, and you can really put it to use OR rent it out during the summer.  You get the benefit of Lake George's summer tourist/motorcycle rallies and you can Saratoga's track season.  

None of the places at Gore are ski in/out like Stratton.  No matter what you will be driving... so... might be worth it to drive the extra miles.  This one of the reasons I don't think condos have really never taken off in North Creek.  

Now, there are a ton of small cabins dotting the landscape up there that can be picked up for under 50k (and sometimes MUCH less) if your into that kind of thing.  

I used to think ski in ski out would be the bomb. Then I realized how much friggin noise the groomers make grooming at night. Plus they run for hours. At my house, in the back rooms during the dead of night, one can hear West Mtn's groomers off in the distance, 2.5 miles. I feel bad for the houses that are adjacent to it. That would S U C K! When they throttle up to climb the hills..... Just something to keep in mind.

I thought that a condo would be ideal too, until we started shopping ski areas and staying in them.  Many owners rent their condos, so you can have a large group arriving late and unloading gear at midnight.  Also you can have a huge partying crowd come in and disturb the peace.  In the end I knew I could not deal with the shared walls and noise factor.  I have stayed at all of the places you mentioned as well as the old place just down the hill from Top Ridge.  They are all dated.  I have been in the Top Ridge model and it is beautiful.  In the end we went with a house on an acre.  If you can deal with the noise variables that a condo may bring, it might be one way to go.  There are many homes for sale in the Gore Mountain region and I would take a good long look before you pull a trigger on a condo.

I recommend you rent a condo at Gore for season before you buy. You will learn a lot about Gore,a lot about the surrounding area and the real estate market in and around North Creek. That way you can make an informed decision on a major purchase. I love my house in Wilmington but if I had it to do over again I would have rented first.

HPD, So what would you do different now ? Location ?

@Footer -- thanks for the suggestion -- thought about that, especially when it comes to the possibility of year-round use.  We've talked before about buying a lake house.  However we like non-motorboat lakes; friends of ours have a place on a larger pond up in NH and its great to let the kids take the kayaks out and swim out with life preservers on without fear of being run down by a drunk motorboater.  But there is a smaller market selection in that segment.  I've been looking around on Zillow.

@Snowballs -- ski-in, ski-out is nice, but for me it is more about having a better value proposition.  My kids are now tweens and teens, so not so big an effort to gear up.  I'd rather be 10 minutes from the hill and pay a lot less for a place.

@Goreskimom -- thanks, those are some insights that are helpful.  We are renting at Summit townhomes in Feb.  Maybe I will plan on an earlier overnight as well.  We were supposed to go to LP this weekend but that got cancelled, so I have some $$ in the budget for another trip.  On the condo vs. house issue, I already own two houses (one our home, the other our old home that I am renting out for a while until the market around here recovers a little more) and I really don't like being an absentee home owner.  Worrying about the house, the landscaping maintenance, when things break I get called.  That's why I think a condo would be a little easier to deal with mentally.  Would appreciate any further thoughts on this.  

@Highpeaksdrifter -- sound advice.  I almost pulled the trigger on a season rental at the Summit (had heard so many great things about Gore, was bored with Catamount and not totally enamored with Belleayre) but figured I'd wait until I visited.  One issue is my oldest is a freshman in high school and if I am going to do this I want to be able to spend a few seasons with her; I don't want to buy it a year before she goes away for college.  Also I echo Snowballs' question of what you would do differently.

Thanks all,
Petronio

I've been following the lake house market. here's one that might fit your needs.

http://www.davies-davies.com/property/details/?ID=10191

Here's a house on Friend's Lake, just a short drive from Gore. Friend's Lake is closed off to the public. You have to have a house on it to boat on it so the boat traffic is very. very light. Would be very safe and quiet. Houses on it don't often go up for sale. as there aren't many. It's also only a few miles from Loon Lake which is very nice.

Just a thought. Don't know what the Condo's prices are but with this house you would also get a lake !

Footer wrote

On your travels, don't hesitate to look at Lake George.  Its 30 minutes from Gore, has actual services, and you can really put it to use OR rent it out during the summer.  You get the benefit of Lake George's summer tourist/motorcycle rallies and you can Saratoga's track season.  

This is good advice, and I'll take it one step further and tell you to look for a place close to Saratoga, also. I lived in Saratoga for three years recently, and that town rocks in the summer. Huge rental market during race season. There is a culture there of locals moving out during the six weeks of race season (Into relative's spaces) and renting for big bucks. Not only race season, though. With SPAC events, you could probably profit from the place every year. It's an hour drive from downtown Saratoga to Gore, but, it's an easy drive, always plowed. You may actually like the place during summer more than winter, believe it or not.

We looked at Top Ridge, Summit, and Gore Village, as well as a few stand alone houses, and ended up buying at Top Ridge. This is out 4th winter here and we absolutely love it. The units are built really well and there is no noise from the neighbors.  All of the owners here are great and everyone really cares about the development. The units are huge compared to the Summit. One thing we hated about the Summit was the electric heat- very expensive and dry. I hear that the units there are not well insulated. I wanted a condo rather than a stand alone house because we live far away and both work full time, so we don't have a lot of time to deal with maintenance.

Lake George is a great place in the summer but it is dead in the winter. We did winter full season rentals there for 2 years before buying at Gore.  We got really tired off the drive each way, especially on vacation weeks when we were doing it every day.  Most of the shops and restaurants in Lake George Village close for the winter so it feels pretty desolate over there.

Are you planning on coming a lot in the summer? We had originally thought of buying something on a lake, but then realized that what we really wanted was a ski house that was as close to Gore as possible. We come up one weekend each summer, but most of our use is wintertime.

Good luck in your search!

We know families that ski out of Lake George.  It can work.  In the summer I envy their lakefront perch. In the winter not so much.  We are minutes to the Gore parking lot.  If someone forgets something, it is simple to run home.  We can come up in one car for the weekend and if someone wants to go home at lunchtime, it is no trouble to come back and pick up the late shift at the mountain.  The summer rental market is certainly something to consider and Saratoga and Lake George do offer that if you are willing to do some driving to the mountain.

Snowballs wrote

HPD, So what would you do different now ? Location ?

I’m not sure if this is a real question or a Gore homer wise ass one, but I’ll answer it anyway.

No I would not change the location; I love both WF and the town of Wilmington.

There are a lot of things I learned since I’ve bought my house, but I just don’t feel like taking the time to list them all. I’ll just say this, had I rented for a season I would have had a better grasp on the fantasy of owning a second home in ski country vs. the realty. Also I’d better understand the difference between buying the house I want vs. the house I need.

My wife and I plan on retiring to our house in Wilmington, so no regrets for us.  It’s more of if I knew then what I know now I may have done some things differently.

Real question. I'm always interested in learning new stuff.

" A good student can learn anytime. It is the secret of knowledge. "

My wife and I discussed this topic today, i.e., what would we really use it for, just the skiing or also as a summer place?  I think the consensus was we liked being at home during the summer.  We have a big yard with flower and vegetable gardens that keep us busy on the weekends, and we usually have a few trips and 1 or 2 weeks down the Jersey shore.  So I am tending towards 5-10 minutes from the lodge parking lot.

Top Ridge might be perfect for you.

No Gore perspective, but just general thoughts on buying a second home.

When I decided to buy, for me, a condo was the best choice. I didn't want to have to worry about maintenance and that sort of thing as an absentee owner. I definitely could have bought a house for a lot less money, but I placed a high value on peace of mind and convenience. Also, my plan is to make my condo my permanent home once I retire. As a retiree, I don't want to have to worry about maintaining a home.

I found a condo in Lake Placid that doesn't offer any amenities, such as a pool, or golfing, etc., so the condo fees, while not cheap, are reasonable, Property maintenance in the North country isn't cheap, so there's not much you can do about it. Also, in my development, a decent portion of the quarterly maintenance charge is allocated to long term capital maintenance projects, such as roofs, roads, decks, etc. Either way, make sure that you factor condo fees into your decision-making process.

This is my 11th year of ownership and I've never once regretted my decision. Over the years, we've had the occasional nuisance issues of noise and such from renters in adjacent units, but that's been the exception and certainly not the norm. One obvious way to mitigate that, to some extent, is to try to buy an end-unit ... at least that way you only have one shared wall.

Having said all that, HPD's suggestion of renting for a season first is VERY sage advice. Also, you need to look at the economics of it ... when you factor in mortgage payments, taxes, maintenance, etc., you need to make sure that you're going to get enough use out of it to make it economically viable, especially if you're NOT planning to rent it out to make back some of those expenses.

Just a few more thoughts on buying a condo as a second home, or a condo located in a "second-home" community. These may or may not be obvious, so forgive me if I'm addressing points you've already considered ... just trying to be helpful.

Financing - Obtaining financing for a second home condominium, or one located in a second home community, can be a lot more difficult than obtaining financing for a house as a second home. Make sure you've done some research in this area before you "fall in love" with something. You may find that you can't find a lender at all, or you may not be able to borrow as much as you need.

Project Status - Consider the status of the condo project you're going to buy into. Have all the units been built or not? Have they all been sold? There's a lot more risk buying into a project that has not been fully built out and sold, than buying into an established project. Builders have been known to "walk away" from incomplete projects, leaving the existing owner's to "pick up the pieces". This can sometimes mean things like roads, lighting, drainage projects, etc., that haven't been completed.

Homeowner's Association - Find out the details about the homeowner's association, and the bylaws, particularly if you're planning to rent your unit out. Make sure you're aware of ALL the rules regarding rentals, etc. Also, if the project is not an established one, has the homeowner's association been formed yet, or does the builder still own the association? If so, what percentage of units must be sold before the association is transferred from the builder to the owners? If the association has already been formed, and transferred to the owners, who are the board members? Are they mostly permanent residents in the community or are they mostly absentee owners? The board's perspective on rules and regulations for the community are going to be very different for permanent residents versus absentee owners. It's just good to know what you're dealing with.

In addition, for second home communities, it can often be difficult to recruit owners who are willing to serve on the Board. Are you ready, willing and/or able to be a board member? This is also something to consider.

Why Gore?  

@FaceMe -- thanks for the advice.  Very helpful.

@tjf -- nothing's definite (especially since I have yet to visit Gore -- just trying to educate myself in terms of RE in advance of the visit so as to maximize time on the mountain/minimize time looking around), but I want a bigger mountain than the Catskills can offer, and less than 3 hours away from Poughkeepsie.  Stratton is on the table, but the drive to Gore is probably easier than the backroads between the Taconic and VT route 7 (and then from Rt 7 to the access road).  Having the drive be mostly the Thruway and Northway seems easier, esp. for my wife if we need to drive separately.  Killington and Okemo would be on the table, but the drive is about an hour too far (IMHO) for a regular Friday night/Sunday evening drive.  And having lurked around here and EpicSki for a while, it seems that, other than the more remote places in Vermont and Maine, Whiteface and Gore offer the best skiing experience in the northeast (taking into account terrain, crowds, vibe, etc.) -- but that is another topic.

Petronio