Gore Mountain Terrain Update

See the Gore Mountain Terrain Update on the blog for a complete description and additional photos:


Chatterbox


Barkeater


Barkeater


The New Bridge


The Road to Little Gore


Moxham Headwall


46er


North Creek and the Hudson from Little Gore

Awesome update. I love the view 46er has of NC, the surrounding hills and the Hudson River. I hope we get better snow than last year so they can open up the ski bowl before the end of Jan.

Thanks X.

That view of town from 46er is even better than it looks in those pics.

I think it was Adk Keith — who suggested, in a comment on the blog — that the holy grail would be skiing from the summit to North Creek via the trees.  While that's always been possible, it can now be done with the aid of lift-service. Would be a great way to end a big day.

One thing about the Bowl ... I'd be surprised to see lift running without a skiable connection from the Gore base.

Harv: Hey Mike... was checking out Hunter's Chopper video... when's our chopper day?

Mike: Not scheduled yet.

Very interesting. Hopefully Gore will inform us of chopper day when it approaches.

Harv, In an above post, you mentioned that the 46er was " covered with soil ". Would you know, is that what will happen to the "road from lil Gore to BR?" Sure is a lot of rocks on it and " shot rock " is very sharp. Do they typically bury that stuff? That would take alot of dirt to bury it's length even a foot or so deep. I know there were patches of shot rock left on Sags, but nothing like what is on that road in the pic you put up. It looks like it's all laying rather flat and the bottom of that pic shows some hay coverage. They'ld have to bury it good with something, dirt or lots of snow.  Just curious.

It's much more interesting watching this expansion unfold vs. BR cuz the Harvinator is bringing us these cool pics and updates. We're not in the dark so much.

Snowballs wrote

Very interesting. Hopefully Gore will inform us of chopper day when it approaches.

Harv, In an above post, you mentioned that the 46er was " covered with soil ". Would you know, is that what will happen to the "road from lil Gore to BR?" Sure is a lot of rocks on it and " shot rock " is very sharp. Do they typically bury that stuff? That would take alot of dirt to bury it's length even a foot or so deep. I know there were patches of shot rock left on Sags, but nothing like what is on that road in the pic you put up. It looks like it's all laying rather flat and the bottom of that pic shows some hay coverage. They'd have to bury it good with something, dirt or lots of snow.  Just curious.

I'm getting the impression that it is going to be a dead sprint to get this work done by opening day.  I can almost hear Mike's "out-of-breathness" in his short emails.

I have no idea if the plan is to cover the rest of the "Road to Little Gore" with topsoil this year. I can't remember exactly what shape it was in back in July - but if you look at the pic I included, in the foreground you can see straw, which I'm sure was laid down for seed:



If I get a heads up on chopper day I will post it.  We'll be in the mtns in Sept, and I'll try to get some time with Mike.  Part of me feels that it's all been said, so another update might be pointless. But it does seem like I learn something unexpected each time we meet.

I believe they are right on schedule Harv. When the Burnt Ridge quad went in it was right in the same time period. They finished most of the prep for the tower pads, and will finish the forms this week. They will pour the pads the first part of September, and be ready for the chopper. I got some really good photos of the Burnt Ridge:

Here's the chopper bringing in cement:



And Here's the chopper bringing in the towers:



The tower pads were poured on 9/5/08, and the towers were placed 10/1/08. The towers would have been done sooner but the chopper was not available. So, based on that I don't see any reason why they would not be able to finish on time this year.

The perennial challenge to scheduling the chopper for tower placement is forest fire season in the west. When the USF runs out of air support for fire fighting, they contract out to the same major helicopter companies that set lift towers. The BR installation may have been delayed a week or due to fires out west as I recall.

The first tower of "The Hudson Triple" is set!

Zelda and I went over to Gore today to have our pics taken for our passes, and sign Neve up for half-day Mountain Adventure.  I popped in on Mike and he generously gave me the better part of an hour to shoot the breeze on all things Gore.

I didn't really feel like I had enough for a full blown blog piece, and I've got to get cracking on this Big Tupper piece, so I'm going to give you what I got here, in the forum:

• Helicopter dates still aren't set. As you probably know two dates are needed. The first date for pour the concrete tower foundations, and the second date to set the towers. Those dates have to be a mininum of 48 hours apart to allow the cement to cure. It's more likely that those dates would be as much as a week apart.  These dates are hard to pin down. The big chopper companies make the big money on natural disasters. Construction is more of a sideline. For a variety of reasons, no advanced notice will be given on those dates.  He is very confident that this will get done for this season.

• Snowmaking will be completed this year on Peaceful Valley, Eagles Nest, and Oak RIdge.

• The odds are very slim at this point that 46er will get snowmaking in the upcoming season.  The two related, limiting factors are (no surprise) time and money. While budgets (and the size of the summer labor force) are fixed the time to finish specific tasks is dependent on a variety of things including weather.  Mike had hoped that if every went right the crews could get on the welding of the pipe on 46er.  But it looks like that will not happen now. This summer's crew is the smallest it has ever been at Gore since Mike started as GM. They've done a huge amount of construction over the off season, but very soon have to move on to maintenance and all the regular pre-season work that has to be done to get Gore open.

• All of the steel for this job - the pipe - has already been paid for. And, very lucky for Gore and Gore skiers, it was purchased a few years ago, before the cost of this type of pipe skyrocketed. (Harv wonders: is this one of the hurdles for getting snowmaking on Hoyt's High at Whiteface?)

• Here's something pretty cool IMO... we were looking over the site plan for the entire mountain. I noticed some lines on the map, on Burnt Ridge, that I didn't recognize. I snapped this photo with my digital camera:



I asked about them. Each red line is an "approved trail." Hmm.

Starting at the left, the first red trail roughly resembles The Cirque.

Harv:   Mike what's this?

Mike: That's the Cirque.

Harv: MIKE.... you're not planning to turn the Cirque into a TRAIL are you?

Mike: No. It's just that to get approval for that much cutting we need "trail approval."

Harv: So the same is true of Barkeater?

Mike: Yes.

Harv: So wait... (pointing to the trial that connects Barkeater and the BRQ) ... what is THAT?

Mike: It's another "trail."

Harv: What's it's called?

Mike: It has no name.

Harv: Let's give it a name, so tree skiers can fantasize and analyze!

Mike: The crew calls it "Haymaker."

Haymaker it is. No work has been done on it yet. Currently it's not a priority. Next year, in the off-season, top-priorities include snowmaking on 46er and the blasting of Hedges to allow and easier return trip from the BRQ.

That's what I got. Maybe I did have enough for a blog entry.

Thanks. This is a nice look into the future.

BTW, do you have a job? Do you need an assistant?

Thanks for a great update.  You need to quit your job and stay up there!

Maybe you could sweet talk Mike into giving you a 24-48 hour heads up on the arrival of the helicopter.

Benny .. your comment has more meaning than you may realize.

You can certain work for Harvey Road. I'd check first with James, Jeff and the others .. ask them if the pay is commensurate with the hours.

adkskier wrote

Maybe you could sweet talk Mike into giving you a 24-48 hour heads up on the arrival of the helicopter.

No advance notice of chopper dates will be given. Given the circumstances it's understandable IMO.

A beer at Laura's for the best chopper photo submitted exclusively to Harvey Road!

Another great update from Harv.  But......

As I look at the Burnt Ridge map (which I have seen on the master plan map but was never defined) I get somewhat confused and disappointed. Is Burnt Ridge just going to be 2 trails and the rest tree skiing? It seems kind of silly to have all that beautiful new HSQ firepower and only a handfull of us using it. Echo is a nice run for blue skiers, but the run out on Cedars sucks and does not lead to yoyoing the quad. In fact the lack of easy blue or even green access will make that chair woefully underutilized. I realize it is also the connector lift for the Ski Bowl, but it seems to me to be a waste not to have another blue trail cut down the main face that would put blue skiers right on the lift. The length (6096') made a HSQ mandatory, but the lack of blue skiing is puzzling. As much as I like skiing the woods and black trails, I still get great pleasure from high speed laps on Showcase and Twister.
 
Now there might be acreage limits, trail cutting limits, and most likely snow making limits. If Gore has committed to the Ski Bowl connection they are going to have to waste a lot of snowmaking on Upper Pipeline, Eagles Nest, and Cedars.  The same situation has happened on the Topridge Triple. That chair is underused because of the terrain. The long boring flat for the first third of the Uncas/Topridge/High Pines combined with a slow ride means it is more of a connector than a destination. I will yoyo the lift if the snow is good (3-4 times max), but one run on crappy snow and I am headed elswhere.

Part of the problem is Gore Mountain. It has always had problems with long flat spots. For years Lower Cloud was a run to avoid and now we can avoid it. Upper Wood In and Lower Wood In from the Saddle Lodge to the High Peaks Chair still suck. Now we have Cedars and Upper Pipline as trails try to avoid.

I think I was hoping to ski with my wife and kids on Burnt Ridge, but after one run down Cedars to get to the HSQ we will be taking Echo back to the main base area.

x10003q wrote

As much as I like skiing the woods and
black trails, I still get great pleasure from high speed laps on Showcase
and Twister.  

Whats wrong with a POD that serves some unique skiing? Gore is already mostly imtermediate, like 70%. Does there really need to be more trails for high speed laps? It's questionable that any of the the trails off the Burnt lift should be labeled black anyway.

skimore wrote

Whats wrong with a POD that serves some unique skiing? Gore is already mostly imtermediate, like 70%. Does there really need to be more trails for high speed laps? It's questionable that any of the the trails off the Burnt lift should be labeled black anyway.

How would the pod change with 1 or 2 easy to use blue trails? That chair is empty.

What is unique is a new HSQ with over 1400 vertical feet in a warmer, wind protected lower elevation.  Most skiers rate green and blue. If this lift does not serve  blue and green skiers Gore will continue to close the lift mid week as it has done quite a bit since it was installed. At least one weekend last year the Burnt Ridge HSQ was closed due to racing on Twister. The ticket prices are now on a par with VT. Closing a new HSQ on a weekend with decent snow on the ground is unique to Gore.

By the way almost every pod at Gore serves up some unique skiing with a couple of decent green or blue trails.

 

x10003q wrote

skimore wrote

Whats wrong with a POD that serves some unique skiing? Gore is already mostly imtermediate, like 70%. Does there really need to be more trails for high speed laps? It's questionable that any of the the trails off the Burnt lift should be labeled black anyway.

How would the pod change with 1 or 2 easy to use blue trails? That chair is empty.

What is unique is a new HSQ with over 1400 vertical feet in a warmer, wind protected lower elevation.  Most skiers rate green and blue. If this lift does not serve  blue and green skiers Gore will continue to close the lift mid week as it has done quite a bit since it was installed. At least one weekend last year the Burnt Ridge HSQ was closed due to racing on Twister. The ticket prices are now on a par with VT. Closing a new HSQ on a weekend with decent snow on the ground is unique to Gore.

By the way almost every pod at Gore serves up some unique skiing with a couple of decent green or blue trails.

It all comes down to money, and Gore/ORDA/NYS are all broke! The trails that we have now, were financed as part of the entire interconnect project, and will be what we have for a while until more money comes along, which I do not anticipate anytime soon. That is why the Ski Bowl only has 3 trails right now as well. There is plenty of room to add more trails on Burnt Ridge as well as the Ski Bowl, but we won't be seeing them anytime soon either. But, on the positive side, glades are very inexpensive to make, and that is why we see more and more glades add to Gore each year. And for me, that is fine and dandy!

With regard to the BRQ POD...

From an overall resort standpoint Xman is right.  That beautiful, expensive, deluxe lift isn't really servicing a large group.  Echo is a nice trail, but serves primarily as a way to get back to the base, because of the way MOST PEOPLE perceive Cedars. I personally have no problem with Cedars, but also admit I'm not likely to lap it.

Sagamore is an epic trail. A long, bumped out, border line blue/black. IMO Echo is also borderline blue/black. Both trails are basically blue with "headwalls" that are steep. Funny thing about Sagamore ... it's unusual ... the steepest part is at the bottom.

If you look at that image I snapped in Mike's office (posted above), it shows the trails, Sagamore and Echo, plus The Cirque, Barkeater and "Haymaker." If you were going to add another blue trail I think it would have to go Barkeater to Haymaker.

If the plan was to create a trail on skiers right... I'm having a hard time seeing the big picture here. Cirque is incredible. Any trail covering that same terrain would have to be labeled black, or require TONS of blasting.  And what you'd get would be another blue/black trail in exchange for one of the most incredible, long tree runs in the East. Personally, I don't think it's worth it.

And Shaman has a point - tree runs are WAY cheaper to operate than trails. If Mike adds another tree run, Gore advances it reputations as one of the best tree skiing hills in NY. If he adds another trail, he's got to hear even more grief about snowmaking limitations. So even if the long term plan is to add another trail over there ... why tip your hand?

Another thing Xman is right about... Gore has terrain challenges. Maybe NY's mountain in the southern Adk should have been located at Hoffman Mountain as originally planned. But those who love Gore, accept her limitations. Many of us are teleskiers who see skating as part of the game.

FYI- I'm under the impression that with the planned build out - Haymaker as a tree run not a trail - we are close to the 40 mile limit. But putting that aside for a moment - IMO Gore is MORE unique with the BRQ the way it is. Guys like skimore might argue that Gore was more unique BEFORE there was a lift on Burnt Ridge.

Thinking about what Mike said to me on Thursday, I didn't realize it at the time, but he left the door open for the "paving" of Barkeater/Haymaker. His quote... "the goal is to increase access from the top of the BRQ to the base of that POD."

Whatever happens ... even if Cirque is only open 20 days a year ... don't pave it.

There's nothing like it at Gore, and a lot of other mountains.