Gore Vs. Whiteface - Battle Royale Edition

wherever they are making snow.  I'm certain that's the case at both places.

If that's the case, I'm CERTAIN that Hunter beats both.

ausable skier wrote

Gore's fatal flaw is all those fricking flat spots.  WTF were they thinking about when they put that Sagmore lift a mile of XC trail away from the rest of the mountain.  Do Gore skiers consult XC waxing guides just so you can get around the place.

Whiteface may have the most vertical in the east, but Gore has the most horizontal (might exceed some nordic areas!) in the east. Strong skating skills and fresh wax help, but it's still a title that Gore management seems proud to hold and expand. I'm surprised they didn't move the lower terminal of the Burnt Ridge quad up hill to allow a bit of a climb just to round out the trip across Cedars!

ml242 wrote

what is the best straight up snowmaking mogul trail at each?

This is great, I'm going to ski both this year with all these notes.

Four great manAmade bump trails at the WF:

MacKenzie aka the Big Mac:  AK has implemented a no2minimal groom policy on MacKenzie.  This has resulted in one long arse leg burning bump run.  Get it during/right after first snowmaking of the season and its monster whales on upper mac leading into Alaska style (mini me) spines through the ledge section followed up by medium angle bumps lines down middle mac w/ the quad crusher finish up on lower Mac.  I tend to prefer skiers left.  Top2bottom w/out stopping is referred to as the Big Mac attack!

Lookout Below:  this trail is an outstanding addition.  narrow right down the fall line nuttiness.  It faces hard east/ southeast and soaks up the sun.  No grooming possible at this time so it's quite the unique bump run.  Snow making piles up in the middle of the trail into near vertical spines which chop up into nice rungs that you can string together like descending donkey kong ladders.  On either side, great staircases build up.  The sun when bright keeps them soft even on colder days.  when it's spring, lookout below is a lap fest if you got the legs to hold it together.  Beaware of the exit though.

Skyward (aka the full sky):  Skyward does get a regular rotation of grooming which results in some of the funniest, fastest GS runs around.  However, in the late spring the grooming stops and VW sized bumps grow from the top of skyward all the 2000' vertical feet down to summit quad.  Spring bump skiing on Skyward rocks it.

Victor's Vortex (first shot in Cloudsplitter glades):  Lots and lots of manAmade blows into the glades off upper northway.  As it piles up the first line (skiers left) is surfaced with pure ADK velvet which quickly carves up into smooth bumps in da trees.      

Honorable mentions:

Niagara:  Steep headwall off upper skyward that drops to top of Victorias.  Stay left.  

Lower Parkway: lots of sun exposure and low angle bump fields.

Victorias:  skiers left (tight left) and up and over the edge on skiers right.  Pay attention to the cables on skiers right though.

Essex:  Essex's edges (skier right on top, skiers left below the cut over to turn 2 on excelsior) hold awesome corn snow.  It's northern exposure keeps essex cold and the skidders push alot of snow onto these edges.  Some real fun lines hold all season in here.

Wilderness:  World cup bump course.  Not many other places provide you a FIS caliber mogul course.  See how you stack up against the best in the world...  

Soon to be determined:

Hoyt's High!  So much potential in her fall lines!  Snowmaking in place for the 2012-13 season!  BooYAY!  





   

Both Mountains Rock...Both Party Scenes are awesome...In perfect conditions I have to agree Whiteface is the better of the two but perfect conditions are much more rare at WF than they are at Gore.  Gores Trees are really cool and long and varied but Whiteface's are steeper.  On an Iceface day you can still find "softer snow" deep in the trees.  As far as bumps go McKenzie and Wilderness blow away Rumour, Lies and Sagamore as long as they are not bullet proof.  I am honored to have a pass for both and can pick and choose my days at the Face...Gore is still my regular go to because it is closer.  If the slides are open that just makes for a special treat.   I don't care which place I am skiing as long as I am skiing!

Just imagine Sandy is a winterstorm
We'd be that much closer to paradise

+1

Did you just say short posts are the best?  This one is long and worth reading - I agree totally except you didn't mention Upper Cloud which has not been groomed much at all the past few years.  It has the most interesting fall line and the bullet proof entrance where the wind blows the snow off scares many away from the softest bumps on WF

My other favorite bump trails are the right side of Wilderness when they let it bump up in the spring and Skyward when bumped.  

Coach Z wrote

+1

Did you just say short posts are the best?  This one is long and worth reading - I agree totally except you didn't mention Upper Cloud which has not been groomed much at all the past few years.  

HA! I am contradiction in motion!  

I didnt mention Upper Cloud cause the man asked for man made snow bump trails and WF rarely makes the manAmade on Upper Cloud.  But MoNat sure as hell blows it in there!  

Upper Cloud may very well be my favorite trail.  There's more terrain variety between upper cloud to the summit  quad than most mtns on da east coast!  

When open I will could ski Upper Cloud lap after lap.  What is so great about it is it skis so differently depending what side you ski it.  You are right - Mother Nature blows it in and so few ski it.

It is my favorite trail by far.  If Gore had anything close this would be a closer arguement.  Upper Cloud by itself is better than anything at Gore.

Gah! I hate it when you Whiteface people call Cloudspin "Cloud". That's not the name of the trail. Cloud is at Gore. You don't call Mountain Run "Mountain", why is it so important to save the extra syllable? You don't see me calling Rumor "Room"

Whiteface's Cloud(spin) is so long it actually has three separate parts none of which Whiteface locals call Cloudspin.  There is Upper Cloud, Niagara and Victoria.  Gore's Cloud is so short there is just Cloud no extra names required.

Another shoot and score for Whiteface!

I gotta say, I love ScottyJack's enthusiasm here.

But what is really the difference between Wilderness and Mackenzy's? Kind of the same, right? If WF replanted trees on half of the redundant trails (to leave glades) and then cut new intermediate stuff off of the lookout triple OR lookers left of the Gondola (and steep stuff!) who wouldn't do make that trade?

Maybe that's why there is an argument about which mountain is better in general. As good as Whiteface is, it does seem like AS GOOD AS IT IS it could still be improved, whereas Gore is kind of a machine operating on all cylinders. I mean, they can't un-flat spot it, you know?

ml242 wrote

But what is really the difference between Wilderness and Mackenzy's? Kind of the same, right? If WF replanted trees on half of the redundant trails (to leave glades) and then cut new intermediate stuff off of the lookout triple OR lookers left of the Gondola (and steep stuff!) who wouldn't do make that trade?

You must not be thinking of the correct trails ... there's nothing whatsoever similar between Wilderness & Upper/Lower Mackenzie.

Maybe you're thinking of Wilderness & Mountain Run.

mattchuck2 wrote

Gah! I hate it when you Whiteface people call Cloudspin "Cloud". That's not the name of the trail. Cloud is at Gore. You don't call Mountain Run "Mountain", why is it so important to save the extra syllable? You don't see me calling Rumor "Room"

ml242 wrote

I gotta say, I love ScottyJack's enthusiasm here.

But what is really the difference between Wilderness and Mackenzy's? Kind of the same, right? If WF replanted trees on half of the redundant trails (to leave glades) and then cut new intermediate stuff off of the lookout triple OR lookers left of the Gondola (and steep stuff!) who wouldn't do make that trade?

Def a lot of difference between mac and wilderness.

Hopefully WF cuts the next approved trail off lookout mtn next summer.  When riding the lookout triple you can see (lookers right) a natural drainage that twists down through.  It's lookers left of the big open rock face.  The trail will only be 80 feet wide, have a number of bends and reconnect onto Hoyt's at the big open section a couple towers up from the lift base.

Lookers left of the Gondola??  What you talkin bout Wilis?  Do you want to put us into the river and have to skin back to the base?  Plus the sun melts snow on that aspect like warm butter on hot toast!

Coach Z wrote

Another shoot and score for Whiteface!

Attn:  MC to the second power...

Cloudspin is our bar.    And we have fooseball!!  

ScottyJack wrote

Lookers left of the Gondola??  What you talkin bout Wilis?  Do you want to put us into the river and have to skin back to the base?  

To Gore skiers its perfectly normal to add a half mile skate to get back to lifts

On a serious note I assume that Gore must not have the milage limit on trails that Whiteface has because all those long flat spots count into trail length.  Does anyone know if Gore has a limit like Whiteface and where they are to thier limit if there is one.

Coach Z wrote

On a serious note I assume that Gore must not have the milage limit on trails that Whiteface has because all those long flat spots count into trail length.  Does anyone know if Gore has a limit like Whiteface and where they are to thier limit if there is one.

From Article XIV of the New York State Constitution:

" ... and not more than forty miles of ski trails thirty to two hundred feet wide, together with appurtenances thereto, provided that no more than eight miles of such trails shall be in excess of one hundred twenty feet wide, on the slopes of Gore and Pete Gay mountains in Warren county ... "

ScottyJack wrote

Attn:  MC to the second power...

Cloudspin is our bar.    And we have fooseball!!

That should settle this battle once and for all----period----zip----done

Coach Z wrote

On a serious note I assume that Gore must not have the milage limit on trails that Whiteface has because all those long flat spots count into trail length.  Does anyone know if Gore has a limit like Whiteface and where they are to thier limit if there is one.

IIRC, Gore's limit is 40 miles, WF is 25. Liftlines and glades not included.

ScottyJack wrote

Attn:  MC to the second power...

Cloudspin is our bar.    And we have fooseball!!

Tannery is our bar, but towards the end of the season, everyone hangs out on the deck for the party.

Then again, that doesn't add to the count for me because i'm only 12.