Honda, Hyundai or Subaru?

125k on our 2005,  we thought we had an oil leak so the dealership did a compression test.   Factory spec--aka 100% compression after all those miles.    Turns out the place we were getting oil must have been short chaning us...the old days of pouring in quarts, gone.   National Chains---wont trust them again.  


No repairs, just tires.   But I think we need a new catellic converter which does not make me happy.  


I drove VW for 300k miles, several cars under my belt.   Would buy them at 150k and sell them at 250k, for nearly the same price.    Loved them....don't think I would buy another, too many lemon stories lately.    That said, my bro has a passat....he loves it, I drove it and it rocks.    

I:)skiing wrote

I drove VW for 300k miles, several cars under my belt.   Would buy them at 150k and sell them at 250k, for nearly the same price.    Loved them....don't think I would buy another, too many lemon stories lately.  

I've always like the styling and the handling of VWs.  When we were dating, Zelda had a white New Beetle that was the cutest thing. I think it was a 2000 model year.

One day she called me from the highway. The oil light was on. Zelda had the presence of mind to shut 'er down immediately and call me. I figured there had to be a leak. The oil had been changed in the last 3000 miles. It was new, so we took it to the dealer.

No leak.

The run around that followed made my head explode.  The story from the dealer was that any amount of oil burned by the engine, up to 1.25 QUARTS per 1000 miles was considered normal.

I was flabbergasted.  The recommended oil change interval on the car was 5000 miles and the car didn't even hold five quarts.  So then it was normal to bring a car into it's first scheduled maintenance with a seized engine?

They told me if I could document with service receipts that the engine was burning more than 1.25 quarts per 1000 miles over the course of 5000 miles, then I could get a new engine.

Careful reading of the owners manual did show that it was recommended to check oil levels at every fuel fill up and top it off. Not exactly convenient.

I was so damn cranky that I forced my way past the smarmy service manager and grabbed a mechanic. He told me VW was in huge trouble.  There were two motors in the Beetle. One was a 1.8 liter turbo and it was a decent engine. The other engine - I forget the size of it - our engine - burned oil in a big way - and if VW was forced to make good on it, then the company was going down.  I couldn't BELIEVE he told me that.

After two more "red light specials" we brought it to a Toyota dealer and traded it in on a Taco.  We couldn't bring ourselves to sell it to an individual. Unreal.

We need some kind of emoticon for thread drift.....

Saw this on the street today. If it was still made, I'd buy it as my ski car:


Honda Civic Wagon AWD

.. Hey Jason ... did you buy a car yet?

JasonWx- If you don't "need" the AWD, go for the MPG w/snows. And by "need" I mean you need it to get up a driveway. I have lived in VT/NH for 5+ years and regularly chase storms and log lots of powder days involving drives from 40 minutes up to three hours on all types of roads. Never had a problem with a front wheel drive economy car with snows. Tried the Dunlops and XIce's and like the Blizzaks the best. Everyone has a different take though, just get one of the top brands and you are good to go.

VW TDIs look really nice. I had been eying the TDI SportWagen as a potential next vehicle purchase. Though the VW TDIs are rather expensive, especially if nicely equipped, so that may be a deal breaker and the Elantra Touring is a possible back up for me (S likes the Matrix tho).

The Hyundai Elantra/Sonata and Toyota Corolla all get 35 MPG highway. TDIs only 42 IIRC. Big up in price for a modest gain. I think that is where the SportWagen shines because wagons top out at 30 MPG for other brands. But the TDIs in comparison to cars are a lot harder to make work financially (though who knows what gas prices will do in the future). My current car gets 35 MPG and I can get it over 40 if I really work for the efficiency. I think it adds up if you log a lot of ski miles.

There is no road around Whiteface or Gore where AWD will perform better, regardless of condition.

Ice on the road, snow storm - those are not the conditions where snow tires make all the difference. All AWD will give you is false sense of confidence.

My Honda Odyssey ("Cadillac of minivans") drove like a tank last winter with new set of snow tires Blizzak WS-60 and some common sense.

Let me put it this way: there is no need for AWD on ANY legal road in US.

River makes a good point to consider. You probably noticed the price of gas in rising again. It's not because the price of oil went up, it's because the dollar is losing value. $4 per gallon MAY not be far off.

There's some odd things going on beneath the surface. Uncle Sam postponed passing his next budget till after the November elections, It's a budget that's somewhere between 2-4 Trillion dollars short. They're trying to down play it as less, but it's not. The shortage will have to be borrowed OR printed. Noboby's gonna lend us that much cash so serious inflation is a very real possiblity. This week, the Feds were supposed to Offically brand China as a rogue currency manipulator but they postponed it (again) cuz we need the Chinese to lend us hundreds of billions to float our budget. They're not gonna do that.

The Chinese Communist Party is meeting in the next few weeks to set their economic policy for the next 5 years. I wouldn't be surprised if they cut the cord with the US and it's money pit.

California, the world's 5th largest economy is 19 billion short on it's budget and for some 100+ days now, they can't close that gap and pass their budget.

The Federal Reserve is making moves towards zero interest rates for bank-bank loans.

Other countries are starting to rumble and grumble against our financial "house of cards" policies. They're gonna want us to enforce strong austerity policies in America.

We're very, very close to that " Rock and a Hard place". Don't be surprised if the value of the dollar falls quite a bit and things cost a whole lot more.

In a few short years every tax dollar Uncle Sam collects will be needed just to pay the interest on the National Debt. It don't take a genius to see what's coming.

IMO it always makes sense to live frugally regardless of the costs of things.

Technically I guess this is not a road:



But having AWD means that, on each of the 150+ trips I make to and from the car each winter - I save 400 feet in length and 60 feet in vertical.  

To me, the family sherpa, that is worth the cost.

Plus it keeps the car in sight, and safely out of reach of the plow.

Harv shows where AWD is most beneficial. A steep access road that may or may not be plowed enough to allow for a FWD with snows to get up it. Especially for a second residence in which you just drove significant distance, you don't want to be skunked on getting up your drive way (with an unhappy family to boot). AWD is ideal for this type of use. It is not ideal if you think you need it on highways, town roads, ski area access roads, etc. You get not much benefit in those situations, at least not enough real benefit to justify the extra price both in initial cost and in gas. It is a nice creature comfort to have and gives that added sense of security, but the AWD is to get the car going, it gives no benefit in slowing down which is where most winter accidents are going to happen. Snow tires are for traction.

steve, i agree with you 100%..
My short list is now between the Jetta tdi or honda civic..

Two other options to consider are the new for next year Ford Focus and Chevy Cruze. Both are standard unleaded engines and get 40 MPG according to current projections (I don't know if they have been EPA tested yet). Yea, yea, yea... Ford and GM. But 40 MPG for under $20k is bananas good and sure makes the TDI look extremely over priced.

Go for the Honda with good tires. Nothing beats a little front wheel drive car in the winter with a good set... I drove a '96 Civic for years to the mountain and never failed to make it to the lot. Now I have a Honda Element, fun and AWD, but the gas mileage is nowhere near as good as the little Civic. Dad has a 'new to him' 98 Sub Outback and he'll be running through the snow this winter so we'll see.

I looked at the civic yesterday..unless subie makes me a offer i can't refuse, i will buy the civic.

Dude, Subaru. No comparison to a ........ Civic. The Impreza is the best value ski car out there, period. I've been driving Outbacks and Foresters since '96, and, there's nothing like them in snow. Nothing. Especially with 4 snow tires. I've been out west in the mountains many many times and rented the popular SUVs through the years, mainly out of curiosity, and always come back to my Subaru and smiled.

One caveat - beware used Subarus from, oh, '99 to '04. Major head gasket problems that factory recalls fixed if you owned one, but, you never know if the person you are buying from dealt with it correctly. I've been there, done it, and still put Subaru #1 on the ski car list. And, "car" is the important word there. It's a car, not a 6000 pound truck that sits too high and takes forever to stop in snow.

OT I admit... but nice to see the hybrid category expanding.... the Honda CRZ:



A econo-sport, with a 6 speed stick, and 35/39 EPA mpg.

I wonder if AWD and hybrid technology could work together with a gasser FWD and electric motors in the rear.

Harvey44 wrote

I wonder if AWD and hybrid technology could work together with a gasser FWD and electric motors in the rear.

Isn't that how the Highlander has worked for years?

That new Honda should be fast. Hybrids rip. The Tesla is wicked quick.

Subaru. Subaru Subaru.!!! I’ve had a new 1973 VW bug, new 1983 Honda Civic, new 1994 Hyundai Excel, new 1997 Hyundai Elantra wagon, new 2004 Honda Civic(my wife drives mostly) and I just got a 1998 Subaru Outback 2 weeks ago, used with 122K no rust well cared for. I would never go back to another car after just a few miles of driving this new old Subaru. I drove it around windy roads over to Stoney Creek yesterday just for fun and to check it out. Wow I liked it lots, handles super, rides on rails around up and down corners. I’m no car person in general but I know this is a sturdy nice handling car that will do well in winter. Go with the Subaru.  

Hudsonhiker wrote

Subaru. Subaru Subaru.!!! ... Go with the Subaru.  

Hey traitor... see if the Honda 'bus' comes and picks you up for skiing this year!

hehehe, Cute.

Denis.N wrote

Let me put it this way: there is no need for AWD on ANY legal road in US.

I've been thinking about this.  During the season of 2007-2008 and the following season, I drove in a lot of heavy weather. I remember specifically one storm, driving up 87. It was coming down so hard that the plows were not keeping up. There was one lane that was barely passable, with two tire tracks being kept clear by the big trucks.

There was no passing. ANY move outside of that one "line" and your car was pulled hard out of your lane. Essentially the drag on the wheels outside of the lane was so much greater than the drag within the lane than you had to fight with everything you had to stay in lane. Once out of lane there was no moving. You either waited in your car with the heat running until your fuel was gone, or you started walking.  I saw people doing both. There was no way to help stranded motorists, because if you pulled over you were stuck too.

I saw hundreds of cars stuck that day. Seriously maybe 200.  NONE were even dented. No real accidents, but a dangerous situation — many stranded motorists out in nasty conditions.

It was extremely tiring. You had to focus like a laser to stay in lane. You'd drift a little, and you had to aggressively step on the gas, and fight the wheel at the same time.  Of the cars stranded some were AWD/4WD, but a smaller portion of the total. I am convinced that day that AWD really did help me.

There's a strong counter argument to what I am saying here. Harv - what the hell were you doing out on the road?  You shouldn't have been driving. Fair enough.

But here's the thing. In December of 2008 I posted a piece on Whiteknuckled Storm Chasing. It makes the point that if Gore is really getting hit, then the odds are high that I'm driving through some serious shinola.  While I probably shouldn't be on the road in that situation, I was. And I'll continue to do everything I can to ski as many days as possible, and maximize my powder.

Right. Exactly. The whole point is to have a car that you can drive into the center of a storm, because, duh, there will be fresh powder on the other end. And, a Subaru with four snows will do that. Hell, the only major problem I've had in nasty storms like that were the wipers clogging up. So, since we all agree that Subaru is number one choice, let's all compare notes on winter wipers. That's where i need advice.

BTW, the new Subarus have a special wiper heating element in the windshield down where they come to a rest. Furgetabout Bluetooth or performance engines and tires, I consider that one of the great advances in winter driving.