Honda, Hyundai or Subaru?

I'm looking to replace my 02 Corolla in about month or so. My budget is around 19k . I would like a car with good mileage, handles well in the snow and is reliable.

This is what I have been looking at..

Honda Civic lx
Subaru Impreza
Hyundai Elantra or Sonata

My fantasy car is a VW Golf TDI, unfortunately it is 24k.

I'll give you my two cents based on limited experience.

What's your other vehicle? Is this going to be your primary ski car?

To my knowledge there's no AWD version of the Civic, Elantra or Sonata. The Subie only comes in AWD, so it's not really a fair comparo. AWD = better traction, worse mileage. You can squeeze 42+ out of the Civic and I'd be surprised if the Subaru got much over 32. PDQ would know what kind of mileage you can squeeze out of an Outback, which should be comparable.

We've got a 2006 Civic, but because we've also got a CRV, we've never driven it in the snow.  I'm betting it wouldn't be very good. Ours is a stick, and even on dry pavement it's not hard to spin the tires. It's odd because it's not really powerful.

Hyundai is looking like the next Honda - really good quality cars and great price. Cool styling on some of them too. But no AWD on the small sedans.

If it's going to be your primary ski car, I'd go with the Subie.  We've got a really steep driveway in the mountains and the Subies our friends have, blow away our CRV on that hill. (We went with the CRV for the cargo space.)

my wife drives a toyota mini van..so this will be my primary car...
i like the subaru, but the mileage is poor...the subie might not break 30mpg on the highway..

I had a Honda CRV and liked it alot. I got a Subie Forester and like it better.

My son has a Impreza and loves it.

Out of the 3 you mention, if it will be the car you'll be driving to the mountains in winter it seems to me all wheel drive we trump mileage.

I drive a Subie Forester and put some snow tires on it for the winter.  It's unstoppable in the snow...It's our first Subaru, and we've decided that from now on, one of our cars will always be a Subaru...

I also owned a Civic a few years ago and it handled Buffalo winters just fine.  When I was home from college for winter breaks, I used to do commercial plowing.  That meant I had to drive to the shop to pick up the truck, most often before the city/town plows had a chance to clean the roads.  The Civic did very well, even when we had 81 inches in 5 days, like in December 2001.

It's all about the rubber on the car and the person behind the wheel....but AWD sure is nice...

You'd be lucky to get over 30 in a Subaru. Some people claim they get 30, but I don't believe it.

But, I would definitely want AWD since I drive more in the winter.

Take a look at used Audi a4 4cyl turbo. The 2006-2007 are coming off lease and might be in your price range. I had a 2004 and I got 31-35 on the highway. Mine was a 6 speed man. The engine and drive train are bullet proof. At least test drive one even if you do not think it is for you.  It is a joy to drive.

thanks for all the suggestions..Audi repair cost scare me , but I'll take a look. There is a Audi dealer 2 mins form my job..

What is more important: (a) getting to the slopes in good time and in one piece, or (b) saving a little money on gas? If your answer is (a) buy the Subaru. We have a 2009 Impreza Sport (spent a little extra to get the heated seats and sunroof). Mileage is OK, the car is super-fun to drive and as others have said, it is unstoppable in snow (unless it is very deep - somewhat low ground clearance). I put four Hakkapeliitta R  snow tires on it and have never felt as safe in any vehicle. This car is my third Subaru. Last one was a '96 Legacy wagon, which we put 375,000 km on. Where we live, there is a lot of winter driving and all our vehicles are four-wheel drive: Subaru, 2003 Toyota Tacoma, 1985 Kubota tractor.

When Subie-shopping, I did entertain the used Audi idea. Then I read the reliability reports. Not so great, despite what others report in this thread.



A little tractor and snow stoke for an August day

That is some serious stoke. What's the highway MPG on that hot rod?

I hear over and over that the Nokian's are unstoppable.

Thread drift... basically we need a good highway tire that will be quiet and smooth for 250 miles and then get us up and down this:



Not an easy compromise to make. We're running some Dunlops that are pretty reasonable at it.

But I look forward to the day when we live in the mountains, drive a Subie and have the full-on snowtire setup.

We bought the tractor from my wife's cousin the mechanic. He totally rebuilt the engine, so it is bored out and now produces a whopping 30 HP. It even has a heated cab, a real bonus when blowing snow at -20 C. Blue Toes grew up on a farm and I grew up in the suburbs but I have become the official tractor driver in the family.  I refer to any work done with the tractor as "tractoring." As in, "hey honey, I'm going out to do a little tractoring."

IMHO, you need an "ice" tire rather than a "snow" tire. Ice tires are better for highway driving and mixed conditions like freezing rain, slush, snow, etc. My guess is that living where you live and driving North, this will be a good choice. The Hakkas are an ice tire with excellent snow capability. Pretty quiet ride for a winter tire too. Other good ones are the Michelin X-Ice and the Bridgestone Blizzack. The Blizzacks rule in snow but have a reputation for for wearing out quickly. Lower cost winter tires are usually good in the snow but not so good on ice. I have Hercules Avalanche Extremes on the truck. Great value if you don't need a high-performance tire.

Don't be skimpy, buy four winter tires and a set of basic black rims dedicated for them. That will prolong tire life and make it cheaper in the long run to have them installed each season. I'll bet you could get away with not putting them on until November or December. Plus your car will look hot and you will be ready for that freak NJ snowstorm.

Basically, you don't want to be The Guy From New Jersey who parks himself in a snowbank because he thought his all-season tires were good for real winter driving.

I actually wore a sweatshirt for half the day today. My favorite summer clothing: shorts and my Crispi Tele Boots hoodie.

SBR

Sick Bird Rider wrote

IMHO, you need an "ice" tire rather than a "snow" tire. Ice tires are better for highway driving and mixed conditions like freezing rain, slush, snow, etc. My guess is that living where you live and driving North, this will be a good choice. The Hakkas are an ice tire with excellent snow capability. Pretty quiet ride for a winter tire too.

This sounds like exactly what I need. I drive through a ton of mixed precip.  The night I wrote White Knuckle Storm Chasing I had just come through nearly two hours of freezing rain and sleet. I never thought about it but if you are driving SOUTH to the mountains, when you are storm chasing you're less likely to be going through mixed precip.

One big issue people were having that day was keeping the windshield clear. There was no way to pull over because the shoulders weren't plowed, and once you got out of the lane you were stuck.  I didn't see many "accidents" that day, but I did see a hundred abandoned cars, stuck in the snow on the shoulder. The CRV certainly has it's limitations but it has a bomber defroster, and I never had to stop. I do remember major chapped lips from running the defrost at full bore for so long.

Sick Bird Rider wrote

Don't be skimpy, buy four winter tires and a set of basic black rims dedicated for them. That will prolong tire life and make it cheaper in the long run to have them installed each season. I'll bet you could get away with not putting them on until November or December.

I've got a dedicated winter setup. It's the only way to go. It beats on the tires to take them on and off the rims all the time.  I usually put them on right before Christmas.

FYI — I wake up every morning trying not to be "The Guy From New Jersey."  It's a dream of mine.

How's THAT for thread drift!

OK, I'm bringing it back to cars. Countering the drift. And speaking of drift, apparently the Subaru Impreza WRX STi is one of the most-stolen cars these days, a favourite of both bank robbers and street racers into "drifting."

Harvey44 wrote

One big issue people were having that day was keeping the windshield clear.

Along with a "bomber defroster," the Impreza has a windshield wiper defroster, similar to the rear window defroster most cars have. It is the cat's meow and keeps all that nasty ice from clogging up your wipers. If nothing else, that is a good reason to get the Subaru.

And best of all, if you have unlimited cash like Ken Block (owner of DC Shoes), you can turn your Subie into the ultimate winter vehicle:

As much as I like the Subie, the mileage is real turn off. I am leaning toward the Civic with snowtires..

I never understood why cars didn't have a single wire at the base of the windshield.

At least as an option. A great feature for the north country drivers.

Jason ... come over to the dark side of the force... imagine the fun you'd have just going out for pizza:

You'd be very lucky to get 30MPG or more in an AWD. Any Subie plus snow good tires is the ticket. Look at Vredestein and the Nokian Hakapalita's Shop tires on-line and get them delivered right to your mechanic to minimize handling. Get lucky, you may find alloy rims at the junk yard. If not, at least, buy steel rims so that you only mount the tires once.

2005 sub outback base model, stick.    Unless the snow is deeper than 18 inches, you wont get stuck.    I recall floating a few times during the Md dumps...trying to get to the ski hill.    The oil plate picks the car up out of the snow so the tires loose traction...then when you slow down the snow compact the tires touch snow again and you start moving once again.    

AWD seems to be the way to go.   Heavy rain, no issues.    


Newest Outbacks are even biggger.    We  run two kids under 5 in it, while we know how to pact etc...the car does it for us...bit tight sometimes.    We have a Thule Evol 16.   and a bike hitch.  


hwy  26 max

IMO Subie has lost their way a little bit.

Don't get me wrong. If we lived in the North Country full time, and didn't need the cargo space of a CRV, we'd own one. They've got the best AWD system - for traction - in a "small" car.

But Subaru's strength in northeast and PNW was originally based on an affordable, economical vehicle to get regular folks through the snow. It seems like with every Sube update, the cars get more muscular, and harder to distinguish from everything else out there.

My comment above about 30+ mpg was a memory from the distant past when Subes were not "full-time" AWD and had that ugly looking extra lever for putting them into AWD. IMO AWD is not like anti-lock brakes - most of the time you KNOW when you want AWD in action, and to be able to shut it off for economy would be a good thing.

Clearly I'm in the minority on this as Subaru sales have been relatively solid, even through the recession. But I'd like to see them produce something a little more along the lines of this Suzuki:



Ideally in a wagon.

I drove the VW Golf. It is the nicest of all the cars in that class..

Not to jinx myself but, i have never been stuck in the snow with my corolla. So I don't know if I need AWD..Anyway these are good problems to have...

FWIW, we have a 200 Outback wagon w/ 200k+ miles that still feels like you are riding on rails when you drive it. AND it is has been a dream to maintain-no major repairs.