Is free heeled skiing harder on your body?

Harvey44 wrote

As far as the wisdom of moving to the mountains in old age, and worrying about whether or not you'll be skiing ... free heelers can ski for a long time.  I could think of no better way to spend retirement than on long, waxless boards tooling around in the woods.

HR,

My knees are starting to ache a bit.  I've had to write off tennis just to allow for my winter pursuits.  Is tele really better on the body?  I'd think that the deep knee bends are killer.

Craig

Hmm, a FWIW....Knee pain can sometimes be caused by muscle, etc tension. Most people don't stretch and after exercise/work/life the thigh muscle can be quite tight....tennis's sudden stopping motions don't help. Over time some people get as tight as Harv's cookie fund.

If your knee hurts down the knee front, (running up and down) then stretching your thigh may solve your issue. Hurdler's stretch will do it. Start slow but do it regularly. If your thigh is too tight to do it on the floor, do it on your bed, maybe even use pillows to hold your back up off the bed until you can go back farther.

Conversely, stretching out the back of the leg can help behind the knee pain. For some years, I have a small tear or such behind my knee, towards the outside.  If I stretch, no pain! When i go for long periods without stretching, it hurts a little.

Try different stretching/strengthening exercises before you start surrendering activities. Stretching also helps muscles recover, like say you skied hard, and still have two days to go, but your legs are spanked, a good stretch right after skiing, they'll feel better the next day.


XMan! You may have found the cause of our warm weather......All you jmokes shut yer windows!!!

CMR, I've skied since I was 6, competed in moguls in Colorado in the late 70's and then began tele skiing in 1979 to get into the back country more effectively.  I skied both until 1992 and have been totally tele since.  I think tele skiing is easier on the knees compared to mogul skiing, but it takes more and different leg strength.  On alpine you are basically locked into your stance, with your knees taking the brunt of the jarring forces (at least when skiing bumps), where in tele you flex at the knees, ankles and ball of the foot.  That flexing takes away alot of the jarring forces on your knees.  
Now there are some knee issues that tele will aggrivate.  If you have issues doing deep knee bends then tele may not be the way to go.  
I'm actually having some knee issues, unrelated to skiing, and have been thinking of giving alpine a try again.  I got bored with alpine skiing after moving to the northeast in 1988, so made the switch to tele, but with the new equipment, I've kind of been really thinking of a pair of fat rockered skis with alpine binders for the powder days.  
We'll see what the MRI shows in a week.  

Time to come to the Darkside K-Man!  Lock and Load!!!

Snowballs wrote

Hmm, a FWIW....Knee pain can sometimes be caused by muscle, etc tension. Most people don't stretch and after exercise/work/life the thigh muscle can be quite tight....

From UnofficialNetworks
Conclusion:
- Don’t perform static stretches over 30 seconds before exercise (or just avoid ‘em)

- Stay away from static stretching over 60 seconds all together

-Start trying dynamic stretches before exercise

- Static stretching after exercise is still good

- Keep warm ups short and effective.  Get ready and warm, not fatigued


It seems like everyone I know who has knee problems is going back to alpine from Tele. This is the first I've heard of it being a two-way street.

They are going back because their lazy.  Tele skiing is harder.

A quote from the article Fuj linked....

" Static stretching is still okay post-exercise.  It’s reported that post-exercise stretching is still a benefit as it:  removes muscle tension, increased muscle relaxation, restoration of muscle length, removes lactic acid (waste byproducts), and decrease soreness. "

Muscle tightness also effects sleep. You simply rest better when stretched. Your body is more relaxed. Muscles aren't " constantly contracted ". Blood flow improves, more O2 in, more lactic acid out.

My gal gets restless leg syndrome at night. Her legs are very tight. When it gets to be too much, I stretch her legs out for her. Problem solved. She sleeps better, is more rested and I'm not awakened by her constant leg twitching and fussin about.

A flexible body is also less prone to injury.

Massages also flush blood and reduce muscle tension. Who would argue they don't feel much better after a massage ? Not sure they increase flexiblity.

+1 to everything K Man said. I've been telemarking since the early 80s but never gave up completely on alpine skis. Bottom line is: tele is easier on your joints but harder on your muscles. And don't forget that, with a few expensive exceptions, the bindings don't release.

Lately I have been locking it down on the resort days but freeing the heel on BC days, when the skiing is more mellow. Last winter, after my ACL reconstruction in 2010, I found that I get a weird pain in the operative knee when telemarking on hard snow. My knee hurt more after one day of tele than it did after 5 days of hard alpine skiing. Could be that I was not fully rehabbed and this winter will be completely different, now that my operative leg is in better shape.

CMR wrote

Harvey44 wrote

As far as the wisdom of moving to the mountains in old age, and worrying about whether or not you'll be skiing ... free heelers can ski for a long time.  I could think of no better way to spend retirement than on long, waxless boards tooling around in the woods.

My knees are starting to ache a bit.  I've had to write off tennis just to allow for my winter pursuits.  Is tele really better on the body?  I'd think that the deep knee bends are killer.

Notice in my original post I said free heels not tele.  I plan on cross country skiing until the day I die.

As far as knees go, if I ran a 1/4 mile today I probably wouldn't be able to walk for a month.  Oddly I can backpack (walk with a big load on my back) and tele all day long.  One of the keys to keeping your knees going is having strong muscles, tendons to support them. Not saying I am super strong, but in that way tele helps.

I can't compare tele to alpine because I have no experience on alpine gear.  But the issue of the lack of a fully releasable binding for tele is a huge one, and for me could be the game changer.

Harvey44 wrote

But the issue of the lack of a fully releasable binding for tele is a huge one, and for me could be the game changer.

That is why I use a neutral binding, instead of hammerheads or something like that.  My hope is the flexy binding will help if I have one of those falls where you twist your ski around your head.

+1 Sickbird , Teleing is easier on the joints , but harder on the muscles.  You said what I was trying to say in far fewer words.

K man wrote

That is why I use a neutral binding, instead of hammerheads or something like that.  My hope is the flexy binding will help if I have one of those falls where you twist your ski around your head.

Yea that's what I'm talkin about. When was the last time you crashed?

Dr. Telemark Injury Link

Is free heeling harder on your body? It's harder on your face when it hits the ground before you have time to blink because you didn't have a locked heel, I can tell you that much.

Sick Bird Rider wrote

 My knee hurt more after one day of tele than it did after 5 days of hard alpine skiing. Could be that I was not fully rehabbed and this winter will be completely different, now that my operative leg is in better shape.

I have had two left knee ACL reconstructions and both took 2-3 years before I really felt "normal".  The first one basically wore out (they used my patella) after 5 years.  It never snapped but I just had loosy goosy knee.  About 4 years into the second one (I have "bob's ligament" in there now) I started to get pain and felt like I was losing stability again.  Went to the doc and had an MRI and everything was good.  After a while the pain just went away and it felt normal.  Running my second marathon this weekend so the guy who did the second one got it right.

I have been mostly snowboarding the past 5 years as it is much easier on my knees - in terms of the downward ACL stressing force goes.  Its also pretty tough to twist your knee anytime other than when you are getting off of a lift.  I always wear my old rollerblade kneepads so dropping down on the ground doesn't hurt either.  Snowboarding is pretty tough on the body all around when you start but not too bad once you get the hang of it.

Going back to alpine gear this year so I can teach my kids.  Hoping the knees hold up.  Recovering from that surgery is no picnic.

K man wrote

Now there are some knee issues that tele will aggrivate.  If you have issues doing deep knee bends then tele may not be the way to go.  

I have big time problems with my IT Bands - would tele be better or worse than alpine with that condition?

Ride a bike.

I think I'll stay with my releasable bindings for now. I wasn't aware that tele skiers are locked in.

endoftheline wrote

Is free heeling harder on your body? It's harder on your face when it hits the ground before you have time to blink because you didn't have a locked heel, I  can tell you that much.

Haha . . . Nice.

Snowballs wrote

Ride a bike.

that's how i got the tight IT Band

endoftheline wrote

Is free heeling harder on your body? It's harder on your face when it hits the ground before you have time to blink because you didn't have a locked heel, I can tell you that much.

I have never had that experience with the freeheels but it does remind me of the snowboarding learning curve. Just substitute "face" with "back of the head" and add "concussion because you weren't wearing a helmet." Got a helmet the next day and spent three wonderful seasons on a snowboard.