Lance Charged With Doping

Washington Post:

The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency brought formal doping charges against former cyclist Lance Armstrong in an action that could cost him his seven Tour de France titles, according to a letter sent to Armstrong and several others Tuesday.

As a result of the charges, Armstrong has been immediately banned from competition in triathlons, a sport he took up after his retirement from cycling in 2011.

In the 15-page charging letter obtained by The Post, USADA made previously unpublicized allegations against Armstrong, alleging it collected blood samples from Armstrong in 2009 and 2010 that were “fully consistent with blood ma­nipu­la­tion including EPO use and/or blood transfusions.” Armstrong has never tested positive.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/lance-armstrong-faces-fresh-doping-charges-from-usada/2012/06/13/gJQAefnPaV_story.html

- Some high profile Athletes CHEAT ------------- duh  where is the story ? No surprises here at all .  As long as we continually overemphasize , glorify , no make that deify these folks they will seek ways and means to feed their need for adulation ,  $$$$$ and notreity .   Next story >

Spot on Warp...B more of a surprise if he didn't cheat

I agree with your sentiments, WARP.  I can barely watch any mainstream professional sports anymore.  I do watch bicycle and ski racing.  I think the current "biological passport" program they have in pro cycling is probably the best anti-doping model and it seems to work.   With that said, I don't think they are going to find Lance guilty of anything.  If the UCI, with all of the Frenchies that are against Lance highly involved, didn't bring charges against him...I don't believe there they are going to find anything on Lance at this point.  

I am interested in this story.  Mostly why hasn't Lance been caught?  EVERY SINGLE RIDER that shared the podium with him in the seven tour victories - that's 14 medals - 7 seconds and 7 thirds (I think it's nine (?) total riders) has been busted for cheating. And he BLEW the cheaters away.

And there are people who have testified to giving Lance injections.  

How has he skated?  Doesn't seem like cycling is that concerned (anymore) with "protecting" the riders.

Also why is this coming out now?  Has LA pissed off the power structure?

I like the idea of having two divisions. Freaks in the doping division, and then a clean division. Then if you are caught  cheating in the clean division penalty is death.  Or maybe a lifetime ban from the clean division and all records get moved to the other division if they stand up.

Is the US doping agency supported by tax payers?  

I find it hard to care about this latest chapter of the Armstrong Saga. However, I would be pissed if I was competing at an elite level, not doping and constantly losing to competitors who turn out to be doping.

The minimum salary in AAA baseball is $2150/month. The minimum salary in the Major Leagues is about $80,000/month ($480,000 this season). Anybody wonder why there was/is doping?

Just did some looking into this.  This is going to get ugly and cost us a shit ton of money.  Mean while The Edwards case was tried in two weeks.   Clemens case started before and is still going on.  I think we are chasing the wrong things in this country.
Who cares if professional athletes take drugs.  Frankly I don't mind it.  All through out history players having been using things that could give them a competitive edge.   Purist say it effects the games history.  Any grade schooler who is visiting the hall of fame will be able to tell when technology in drugs increased performance.  
If a biker can take drugs to make them stronger have at it.   Think about the rating if/when someone is charging up the Alps and there heads blow up.  
I like home runs.  I like big hits.   If professional athletes want to dope have at it.  Playing field leveled.

tjf1967 wrote

    Think about the rating if/when someone is charging up the Alps and there heads blow up.  

Bwhahahahaha   

tjf1967 wrote

If professional athletes want to dope have at it.  Playing field leveled.

There certainly is that argument that by eliminating all doping rules that it levels the playing field.

However, it only levels the playing field for those that are willing to stop at nothing to have the best performance. It screws up the playing field because any professional athlete at all concerned with long term personal health and safety can no longer be competitive with those producing the best results. If forces top athletes that would be the best without enhancement to either be sub-par and barely competitive or risk long term personal health risks up to and including premature death. It isn't fair to those that don't want to live on the edge of death.

Regarding the Lance issue, I think it is trite. All of the top cyclists were doping to the extreme in the Lance era. Lance just never got caught (or at least never had an official positive result). Testing seems much better now and many teams such as Garmin are stepping up apparently very tight internal guidelines and codes of conduct with true zero tolerance policies (which likely means they provide enhancements up to the point that is legal). But that is today. Cycling during Lance's run... you just couldn't post top results without doping. So whatever. I see no point in hunting him down. All the top cyclists did it and it was just the way things were (perhaps it still is but to a lesser extent).

It's funny in some ways... if Lance is found guilty of doping and looses his TdF titles, they just go to other cyclists who have been found guilty of doping but just weren't ruled against for the years they were runners up in the TdF. That really gets silly. Time to move on and worry about what is happening right now and look forward instead of in the rear view mirror.

Harvey44 wrote

I like the idea of having two divisions. Freaks in the doping division, and then a clean division. Then if you are caught  cheating in the clean division penalty is death.  Or maybe a lifetime ban from the clean division and all records get moved to the other division if they stand up.

See I really think my system solves it all!  The cromagnon dudes will go to incredible lengths taking tons of dope and they'll be freaks who are scorned. Sorta like WWF, only considered legit by the crazies.  It'll keep the kids on the straight and narrow. The purses will be less in the freak division, because bigtime sponsors won't go for that stuff if it's out in the open.

Harvey44 wrote

Harvey44 wrote

I like the idea of having two divisions. Freaks in the doping division, and then a clean division. Then if you are caught  cheating in the clean division penalty is death.  Or maybe a lifetime ban from the clean division and all records get moved to the other division if they stand up.

See I really think my system solves it all!  The cromagnon dudes will go to incredible lengths taking tons of dope and they'll be freaks who are scorned. Sorta like WWF, only considered legit by the crazies.  It'll keep the kids on the straight and narrow. The purses will be less in the freak division, because bigtime sponsors won't go for that stuff if it's out in the open.

That wouldn't fly. First off, you have already created reason to dope: the prestige and money is better in your clean league. Also, if you take dope and keep it hidden, you have even more chance to win against other (perhaps) clean guys. So there still are the same reasons to try to dope and avoid being caught.

I didn't read this thread, but who really cares any more?

Found this story via Riverc0il's Facebook page:

http://www.cyclesportmag.com/features/lance-armstrong-the-end/

I think it wasn't realistic, but I really wanted Lance Armstrong to have won fair and square.  

Zippy wrote

I think it wasn't realistic, but I really wanted Lance Armstrong to have won fair and square.

Eh, his record performance and tour wins still stand and are one of the most amazing accomplishments in modern sport. He might not have been clean but neither was any one else. He wasn't clean but he still was the best and his accomplishments are still astounding. The amusing thing is if Lance is stripped of his TDF titles, for many years, they'll have to go quite a ways down in the order to retroactively promote someone else to winner that wasn't also found to have doped. That is why the investigation seems a bit weird to me at this point. Cycling has moved on. Doping may still be happening but only at a significantly lower level/intensity. Testing has been stepped up and there have been a lot of big busts in recent years. Garmin even debuted as a team founded on clean cycling (or at least having a threshold low enough not to get caught). But any ways, going after Armstrong and taking away his TDF wins is just a farce because whoever gets the jerseys in his place would have also doped to get that close whether they were caught or not.

riverc0il wrote

The amusing thing is if Lance is stripped of his TDF titles, for many years, they'll have to go quite a ways down in the order to retroactively promote someone else to winner that wasn't also found to have doped.

This would be worth the pure entertainment value.

Still not sure why they are going after LA. Did he piss that many people off?

Essay by Peter Minde on this topic sums it up for me:

http://www.oxygenfedsport.com/2012/07/doping-in-sport-wrong-on-more-than-one-count/

As Zippy wrote above, I too really Really REEAALLLY want to know that Lance won clean.  But it's beginning to not look good.  As to why USADA chose to go after him and not other U.S. dopers, I have no idea.  It's curious, similar to Alex Rodriguez being the only 1 of 104 pro baseball players whose name was leaked to the press.

My issue is, it just leaves a doubt in one's mind about everyone out there.  And that's not right.

Lance files a countersuit.  Hot off the press:
http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/courts/entries/2012/07/09/lance_armstrongs_lawyers_file.html