Les Otten and The Balsams

Time for a new topic. I know it's not New York but it's in the east. I just read this interesting article from the Boston Globe on Les and his new venture. I know a lot of people think it's too far out and doesn't offer the kind of vertical that's worth driving for but I'm not so sure I agree. I mean, how many money spending skiers out east really ski over 1500 vertical feet non stop? I'm also not so sure what to think of Otten, is he really the "Rotten" that Powder Magazine painted with their article years ago? Maybe it could work? Maybe it's what that area needs? What say you?

Here is the article.

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/article/2017/01/15/les-otten-balsams-ski-resort/

raisingarizona wrote

I mean, how many money spending skiers out east really ski over 1500 vertical feet non stop?

Lots.  Go to Whiteface on a weekend.

Having worked at Killington during the height of the Otten Evil Empire era I can tell you this man is everything that is wrong with skiing.  He is all about the real estate and not the skiing aspect of the business.  You could make a good case that he really created this negative non skiing focus for the skiing industry.  

I recall the first time I met him at a clinic snow sports school staff had to attend at Killington where we were told how to pick out private lesson customers and invite them to a wine and cheese party where they would be pitched on the K Grand Hotel fraction ownership.

What ever he touches will soon after file for bankruptcy.  His guy makes Stengler and Q look good in comparison.  He also loves creating vast trail networks with tons of traverses and intersections and little actual skiing.  Seems to be his god given talent.  Look at Sunday River and the Canyons as perfect cases in point.

More Snow and Less Otten!!!

Coach
I think you might have worked at Killington when I was there. It was the year they went public, 97/98 I think

Coach Z wrote

Having worked at Killington during the height of the Otten Evil Empire era I can tell you this man is everything that is wrong with skiing.  He is all about the real estate and not the skiing aspect of the business.  You could make a good case that he really created this negative non skiing focus for the skiing industry.  

 

I hear ya Coach! This has been my bitch of our lil ole Greek Peak here in CNY. Ever since they built that Hotel, waterpark, and adventure center the place has been teetering on financial disaster. There just isn't enough traffic in this area to support such a place. It's a beautiful facility but I'm afraid it will end up in shambles cue to the lack of capital it will take to keep the place in top notch shape. All it's done is suck the heart and soul out of our gem of a ski hill and unfortunately we skiers and boarders of GP are paying the price.

Damn!  

^^^^^^^^^ you got trumped bro

ScottyJack wrote

^^^^^^^^^ you got trumped bro

I'd say he got ACA'd:
You get to keep your hill just the way you like it, your lift ticket prices won't go up and everyone gets to ski.

shower time PeeHead!

Otten claims he wants to roll this out all at once, all the trails and lots of lodging units. Good luck.

The Balsams is a nasty drive for the Boston market, and you can forget about CT and the NY Metro as it is just too far. He will have a tough time selling real estate units to the USA market. The only potential market is Montreal and they have to drive by Eastern Townships, Northern VT (including the Sugarbush Valley), WF and Gore and all those areas north of Montreal and near QC. In addition, the Canadian $ is worth $.76US today.

The skiing will be lots of yo-yoing on under 1000 vertical feet. The place seems to have decent snowfall. While people will be excited to try a new area, it is a whole different story convincing them to buy RE. It is already a year or 2 behind schedule.

He was able to convince NH to hand over $28 million, so who knows what will happen.

As for an example of a failed remote ski area - Saddleback is still closed.

I was there from 1993 to 2000

I preferred to work out of Pico but I also worked at K especially early and late season.  Probably was about 70 / 30 between the two.

He's a time share salesman who's also a part owner of the Red Sox. Next well read that he's going to work in the Trump administration, before his long stint in hell.

http://indepthnh.org/2017/01/16/forest-society-seeks-details-of-fiscal-relationship-between-balsams-and-northern-pass/

I  XC skied The Balsams a couple of times and really liked it- huge, really good hot chocolate, nice downhill lodge and a fireplace so big you won't believe! That of course was previous owners, so who knows what the future holds. It is true that they have the sweet spot for snow and altitude for cold. I guess they have bought land next to it with better downhill terrain.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2016/02/27/les-otten-last-resort/VN2GEN9PMt48P82phacn3N/story.html

"Otten wasn’t immediately sold on a Balsams reboot. He’d made summertime visits to the resort years earlier with his wife and kids, but he didn’t think it had much appeal in the winter, as its ski trails were shady and windy.

The owners, however, were persistent, eventually driving their plans over to Otten’s home in Newry, Maine. For weeks he ignored them, but then, just before tossing them in the trash, he suddenly spotted something: The Balsams’ layout was all wrong, skiing-wise, its trails far too short. But the land just beyond it was completely different — north- and east-facing slopes with 2,000 vertical feet and room for dozens of runs.

From a terrain standpoint, he says, it was “perfect.” "

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http://nhpr.org/post/special-series-closer-look-balsams-redevelopment#stream/0

Well, one thing I can garauntee, he's not putting his own money into it, but, he's getting a safe piece of the profits, if there are any.

He really likes to spread things out so he can build and sell more real estate.  Its sort of like golf courses that set the holes way apart to make more room for homes.  Sucks as it makes the course unwalkable and slows play.  Same goes for skiing - go ski Sunday River or former Canyons section of what is now Park City.  The runs are short and the traverses long.

Completely agree, that looks like a nightmare of traverses and lifts, with small blips of vertical. I hate whats proposed

Looks like it'll take 5 lifts to reach the East Village from the existing base area.

An update popped up in my FB feed today. Seems to be moving a bit, Otten investing some of his own money.
http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=568

I owned ASC stock back in the day, and Les does a great job of creating enormous debt, with the problem of being unable to repay it.

In case anybody is interested - the Balsams Resort is for sale:
https://www.cbredealflow.com/handler/modern.aspx?pv=AVYIy7hOLZiqeNVoKWDnOuJVgbAS7Qh_eHHSOSwTcYc#_section_2